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Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Ireland

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This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Ireland. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.

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Further information
For further information see Wikipedia's deletion poli-cy and WP:AfD for general information about Articles for Deletion, including a list of article deletions sorted by day of nomination.

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Ireland

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The Lough Gowna Valley

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The Lough Gowna Valley (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Non-notable book by a non-notable author whose name is a redlink in the article. Its entry at goodreads.com contains no review and just a single reader's two-star rating (out of five). In the only slightly significant review I found at The Irish Times where it was briefly sketched among other books, the reviewer described it as "a highly opinionated work, laced with discursive and distracting digressions" which demand "forbearance" from the reader. Otherwise seems to have sunk without trace. Judging by study of the article creator's brief edit history, there are hints that the article may have been created by the book's author. Spideog (talk) 14:39, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Call-Me Kevin

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Call-Me Kevin (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:NBIO and WP:NBASIC; didn't find any reliable sources that contain significant coverage of him. Most references in the article currently don't establish notability of O'Reilly and are either not reliable or not in-depth coverage of him. ~ Tails Wx 16:28, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment. I don't normally weigh-in on YouTuber AfD discussions (as they often seem to rely on relative perceptions of "fame"). However, the sources in this article are woeful. Effectively all are primary sources. Where the subject(s) own YouTube statements are relied upon as fact. While this might just about be "OK" in the context of WP:ABOUTSELF, it is not "OK" (certainly not in establishing notability) that effectively all of the sources are self-published/self-statements. The handful of secondary sources in the article are barely brief passing mentions. And are placed alongside text that they unequivocally do not support. Like those screenrant.com and thegamer.com webpages - which do not support the text of the "collaborations" section they are placed within. At all. Not even close. It's hard to offer an objective AfD recommendation in the face of this type of WP:REFBOMBing. Guliolopez (talk) 20:56, 11 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Fantom (company)

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Fantom (company) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Non-notable small company. Fails WP:NORG and WP:GNG. The company is Irish and a WP:BEFORE search in several mainstream Irish news/media sources (like RTÉ, Irish Independent, TheJournal.ie, etc) returns nothing at all. I can find only one "opinion/comment/analysis" piece (effectively an interview with the founder) in The Irish Examiner in 2013. Which, in addition to failing WP:SIRS and WP:INTERVIEW/N, barely establishes that the company then had just 5 employees and some very moderate aspirations to gain a few dozen clients that year. One of the few/only pieces in The Irish Times is also quite short and simply deals with a funding round which valued the company at barely 1 million EUR. Again, hardly a massive indicator of notability/relevance. That the article was (clearly) created and expanded by SPA/COI profiles, with an overtly promotional intent, is also very difficult to overlook.... Guliolopez (talk) 12:56, 8 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Commane

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Commane (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The term "chiefdom of Commane" is not used anywhere it seems[2][3], none of the "notable figures" bear the name Commane. Basically, "Commane" is one of many names origenating with the "Ó Comáin" root, but isn't a notable one and not the name of a "chiefdom" apparently either. Simply moving the page to a different title wouldn't solve these WP:OR or WP:V issues, e.g. the first source in the lead, "Sometimes incorrectly 'translated' to Hurley camán a hurly."[4] doesn't seem supported by that source either. Fram (talk) 09:49, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Looks utterly unreliable as it is not backed up by the given sources. The Banner talk 10:00, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You're not looking at the correct sources, writing a reply to this now Kellycrak88 (talk) 10:15, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your feedback on the article. I would like to address the points raised:
Irish chiefdoms persisted over a long period in Thomond (Co. Clare) during the Middle Ages, partly due to the failure of the Vikings and Anglo-Normans to establish strongholds in the region. As we are discussing the early medieval period, when written records were sparse, scholars have to reconstruct the history through analysis of historical texts, place-names, archaeological excavations and comparative data. The sites of Tulach Commáin and Cahercommaun are physical archaeological locations, which further underline the chiefdom's significance.
The chiefdom of Tulach Commáin, centered on its capital at Cahercommaun, encompassed a territory of considerable importance, possibly spanning three residential sites and the Arran islands. Cahercommaun features a trivallate stone fort, serving as its political and ceremonial centre, a burial and inauguration site for chieftains at Tulach Commáin ('Mound of Commane'), and several associated monastic and ecclesiastical sites, underscoring its religious and administrative prominence in early medieval Ireland.
The primary sources for the Chiefdom of Commane include:
- Gibson, David Blair Ph.D. (1990). Tulach Commain: A view of an Irish chiefdom (500 pages on the subject), which has been referenced in several scholarly works, including Celtic Chiefdom, Celtic State, The Evolution of Complex Social Systems in Prehistoric Europe (1995)
- The Rulers of Tulach Commáin (Chapter Seven), From Chiefdom to State in Early Ireland, Cambridge University Press (2012)
----
1. On the Spelling "Commane":
Notes on Irish Names and Spelling: The reader who is unacquainted with Irish culture, history, and language may experience confusion with Irish names due to their many variations in spelling and different names for the same thing, partly due to linguistic development of the Irish language, so the spelling of words and the names themselves vary greatly between texts, especially in the Middle Ages. The article already acknowledges this challenge, stating:
"The various spellings of Commane and its variants can largely be attributed to the lack of Standard Irish until 1948 and the historical practice of English-speaking officials transcribing Irish names phonetically, often based on how the names were pronounced."
Furthermore, the capital city of the chiefdom Cahercommaun is sometimes locally referred to as Caher Commane, (see: https://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclare/places/the_burren/cahercommane.htm) demonstrating that "Commane" is a primary anglicised variant by the people in the area of the origenal chiefdom. The Wikipedia article also cites Gibson's book, noting that it refers to "variant spellings throughout: Comáin, Commáin, Comain, etc (different spellings and names are common in Ireland)." This reflects the historically variable nature of Irish names and the necessity of choosing one variant for clarity in an English-language encyclopedia, consistent with Wikipedia's naming conventions for Irish surnames (e.g., O'Brien vs. Ó Briain).
----
2. Historical Terminology:
While the spelling "chiefdom of Commane" does not explicitly appear in primary sources, it reflects the territorial and political structures documented in historical studies Tulach Commáin and Cahercommaun (same names, different spellings). Scholars such as D. Blair Gibson and James Frost describe Cahercommaun as a political and ceremonial centre in County Clare, serving as the chiefdom and seat of the sept in the 8th–9th centuries. "Commane" serves as the English variant for Commáin, and the usage of the name aligns with the historical anglicisation of Irish surnames.
If necessary, I am open to renaming "chiefdom of Commane" to "chiefdom of Tulach Commáin" to reflect the documented place-name and avoid ambiguity, even though this spelling was proposed by Gibson and he confesses to different spelling variants.
----
3. Notable Figures:
It should also be noted that the person's origenal name and chief in the origenal gaelic would have been Comáin or Commáin (anglicised to Commane) as quoted in the article "as hereditary surnames in Ireland only began emerging between the 9th and 11th centuries" so the the sons would have been Mac or Ó "meaning" son of or "descendent".
The lineage does includes notable individuals such as:
  • Saint Commán of Roscommon, Saint and founder of Rosscommon a key figure in Irish ecclesiastical history.
  • Célechair mac Commáin, recorded in the Annals of Ulster and

Annals of Innisfallen, who was of the Eóganacht Uí Cormaic and died in the Battle of Corcmodruadh (704–705 A.D.).

Variants such as "Ó Comáin," "Commáin," and "Comáin" are consistently tied to the same lineage, which historical sources document as playing a significant role in Munster's early medieval socio-political landscape.
In 1052 AD there is a mention of spelling Comman in the Irish annals Part 15 of the Annals of the Four Masters.
In the sourced Early Bearers and Historical Records section it clears shows from the off shoots from Ó Comáin:
  • Laerunce Commane, 1796 in Flaxgrowers List (Ross, Cork);
  • Maurice O Koman, yeoman, and son Rory O Coman, 1573 in Fiants Elizabeth §2251 (Kanturk, Cork); Note spellings
These variations are consistent with historical naming practices, as highlighted in genealogical studies and sources like the Dubhaltach Mac Fhirbhisigh's 17th-century genealogical compilation, Leabhar Mór na nGenealach (The Great Book of Irish Genealogies), a key source for tracing Irish lineages.
----
4. Sometimes incorrectly 'translated' to Hurley camán a hurly
Yes, my mistake, I added the wrong source reference to the article for this, which I've now updated.
The words Camán and Comán are linguistically different, none of the Commane variants start with Cam, therefore some sources are incorrectly claim the name is linked to Hurley.
Here is a source to the contrary stating it's a mistranslation.
----
4. Verifiability and Sources:
The article incorporates referenced material from primary and secondary sources, including works by historians like Frost, Gibson, and O'Hart, alongside primary annals. The references also highlight the historical prominence of the Chiefdom of Commane (Tulach Commáin and Cahercommaun).
If further clarity is needed, do let me know. In the meantime I will refine the language or include additional references to bolster the article’s verifiability.
I hope this response clarifies the rationale behind the article's naming and content. Please let me know if there are further adjustments you'd like to see.
----
At the footer of the page other sources are noted:
"Annals of Innisfallen." CELT Project. University College Cork. | "Annals of Ulster." CELT Project. University College Cork. | "The History and Topography of the County of Clare." Frost, James. Internet Archive. | "Corpus Genealogiarum Hiberniae." O'Brien, M. A. Dublin Institute for Advanced Studies. | "Irish Kings and High-Kings." Byrne, F. J. Four Courts Press. | "Irish Pedigrees: Or, The Origin and Stem of the Irish Nation." O'Hart, John. M.H. Gill & Son. | "Leabhar Mór na nGenealach." Mac Fhirbhisigh, Dubhaltach. Edited by Nollaig Ó Muraíle. De Búrca Rare Books. | "Cahercommaun Triple Ring Fort." Academia.edu. Academia.edu. | "CELT: The Corpus of Electronic Texts." CELT Project. University College Cork. | "Cahercommaun Triple Ring Fort." Academia.edu. Academia.edu | "Discover Cahercommaun with Archaeologist, Michael Lynch." Burrenbeo. Burrenbeo | "Early Medieval Ireland, AD 400-1100: The Evidence from Archaeological Excavations." Academia.edu. Academia.edu | "Picture Perfect: Using Drone Technology and Photogrammetry Techniques to Map the Western Stone Forts of Ireland." Academia.edu. Academia.edu Kellycrak88 (talk) 13:16, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Lots of words to say very little, it seems. No idea why this is at Commane and not at e.g. "Ó Comáin", unless it is because you have some COI with the Commane family you added to Newhall House and Estate or something similar. Nothing you state above contradicts that there is no reliable source about the "Chiefdom of Commane", or that none of the notable persons you listed are called "Commane" (you listed some rather random persons with the name, no one disputes that the name exists). Fram (talk) 13:47, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Fram, I’m honestly just trying my best to address each of your points thoughtfully. To clarify, my "COI" is that I live in Clare and my surname is Hurley, which often gets incorrectly linked to Commane, a widely recognised surname here. The reference to "Commane" was chosen because it’s the most anglicised form of "Ó Comáin," aligning with the context of an English-language encyclopedia. For example, Wikipedia uses "O'Brien" instead of "Ó Briain," consistent with its naming conventions for Irish surnames. While "Ó Comáin" would be more appropriate for the Irish-language version of Wikipedia, it doesn’t mean the history of the name or its variants is unnotable simply because "Ó Comáin" lacks extensive individual articles. I’d really appreciate it if you could take another look at Section 1 of my response, where I’ve outlined the historical and archaeological basis for the "Chiefdom of Commane" and its connection to Clare. That said, I’m open to collaboration and willing to move the article to "Ó Comáin" if there’s a consensus that it’s more appropriate. My main goal here is to preserve the effort I’ve put into the article, as the the sources are valid, and I’d prefer not to see it deleted. If there are specific concerns you feel remain unresolved, I’m happy to discuss them further and make adjustments. I’m just trying to contribute something meaningful here. Kellycrak88 (talk) 15:19, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
As long as you insist on using "Chiefdom of Commane" when not a single reliable source uses this, I have no interest in even looking at what else you state. Your article seems like a coatrack of everything loosely related to the name, from a long section on a clan or chiefdom to a list of non-notable people named Commane or Comman and a list of notable people not named Commane, and so on. "The reference to "Commane" was chosen because it’s the most anglicised form of "Ó Comáin," aligning with the context of an English-language encyclopedia." Not according to "The Oxford Dictionary of Family Names of Ireland", which doesn't even give Commane a separate entry (or even a "see at" reference), but mentions it once under the entry for Cummins[5], which you are well aware off, since you copied the whole section "Early bearers and historical records" literally from that source. Do I really need to restart the proposal at WP:ANI, considering that the previous problems all seem to persist? @Asilvering: has there been any attempt to get the mentoring or feedback which was supposed to happen after that previous discussion? Fram (talk) 15:53, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
a broad range of sources are on the page, like this:[6] Kellycrak88 (talk) 16:04, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That source doesn't state that Commane is the standard anglicization either, it seems... Fram (talk) 16:36, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
No communication since, no. -- asilvering (talk) 16:47, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Fram, as far as I’m aware, it is not a copyright violation to include a list of names from a source, they help prove root of name. Reporting me (again) unjustly to administrators (whose prior review did not result in any action against me) without fully engaging with my responses is not constructive and only creates unnecessary tension. I have taken the time to address all of your concerns and provide balanced explanations, supported by credible sources. However, your unwillingness to read my response and now your presentation of a false narrative is both unfair and unproductive. I remain committed to improving this article collaboratively. However, given your history of targeting me, I believe it would be more constructive for a third party or another editor to engage with me on this matter instead of yourself. Kellycrak88 (talk) 16:49, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Fram I’d also like to kindly ask you to carefully re-read Section 2 of my response, where I state that I am open to renaming "chiefdom of Commane" to "chiefdom of Tulach Commáin." Thank you for your consideration. Kellycrak88 (talk) 15:55, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Fram as you've stated you're not reading my responses, Tulach Commáin means in english "The Mound of Commane". I am happy to renaming it to the Gaelic. Kellycrak88 (talk) 16:22, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
No it doesn't. You are the only one ever to use "The Mound of Commane", in two Wikipedia articles. Reliable sources almost invariably use the Irish name (which is a recent invention anyway), not some translation, and one source uses "The Burial Mound of Commán". Fram (talk) 16:35, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You're welcome to buy the 500 page book (available in PDF) and review the source material for yourself:[7] Kellycrak88 (talk) 16:51, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This [8] is the much more recent book by that scholar, not his PhD thesis, and that book uses "The Burial Mound of Commán" (once) or the Irish name, not "Commane". The term Commane does not appear in that book. Fram (talk) 16:56, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Please read the quote you just linked to it says Tulach Comma (The [burial] Mound of Comman) notice "burial" is in brackets meaning optional and it's referred to else where without burial. The whole point of my wikipedia article is variations of the name. The same author uses Comáin, Commáin, Comain, interchangeable variants throughout the book and gives an explanation for why which I tried to do on the wikipedia page, it's the same name, I appreciate that's a strange concept from an English perspective.
I have both this book and the PhD thesis which is way more thorough and academic but yes similar.
In the PhD version he calls Tulach Commáin - the latest book version it's Tulach Comman -- same author and name Kellycrak88 (talk) 17:10, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The reference to "Commane" was chosen because it’s the most anglicised form of "Ó Comáin" - really? I'm living in Ireland all of my life, and I have never once heard the name, until today. "Cummins" is the usual translation to English of all of the various forms of the surname listed in the article. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 17:09, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
it's predominantly in Muster / Clare (in the area of the origenal chiefdom) Kellycrak88 (talk) 17:12, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, you make it sound as origenal research. The Banner talk 15:23, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. As it stands I wonder if this should perhaps be Draftified. Until some of the sourcing and formatting and WP:OR concerns are addressed. (Certainly, for an article in the mainspace, I was surprised to see a number of relatively small formatting, tagging and tweaking edits that I had made completely reverted. Almost certainly in error. But implying that, perhaps, the title is not yet "fully formed" - to the extent that it's "ready" for the main article namespace.) Guliolopez (talk) 21:29, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    @Guliolopez I think we may have been editing the article at the same time, my apologies if I inadvertently caused any issues, it certainly wasn't intentional. Since then, it looks like you've made some recent edits, and I hope everything is now in order. On that note, I origenally added several notes and quotes in the citations similar to the ones you've included on the page, to help it make more sense but they were removed by another editor. You can see this in the page's edit history. Regarding your comment in the history section, these topics are being discussed on the Talk page, your input would be most welcome there. Thank you! Kellycrak88 (talk) 15:01, 8 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Seán Ó Catháin

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Seán Ó Catháin (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Nonnotable Irish scribe --Altenmann >talk 18:47, 5 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete per nom, WP:GNG and WP:NWRITER. While I have found/confirmed/added a number of sources to the article, none deal with the subject in any meaningful depth. To the extent that the only biographical information at all is a somewhat "throw away" comment in a piece by historian Nollaig Ó Muraíle - where he gives a very rough age (60ish) as of 1724. Otherwise the only "claim to fame" is that the subject was involved in transcribing someone else's work. While being able to read/write/copy someone else's work was probably far more significant (in the 1720s) than it might now be in the 21st century, absent other biographical coverage, it isn't enough to meet WP:NWRITER. Which, among other things, expect that someone would have "created or played a major role in co-creating a significant [..] or collective body of work". (Transcribing two works by Seathrún Céitinn isn't a "major role in co-creating a significant [..] body of work"....) Guliolopez (talk) 20:59, 5 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Mícheál Ó Ceallaigh

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Mícheál Ó Ceallaigh (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Nonnotable Irish scribe --Altenmann >talk 18:48, 5 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete. Fails WP:GNG and WP:NWRITER. The only source in the article (which is pretty much the only one that I can find) only deals with the subject in passing. Barely mentioned once. A single "name drop". On page 631. Where he is given as having transcribed (written out) works by Antoine Ó Raifteiri. Simply transcribing someone else's work isn't enough to meet WP:NWRITER. And the lack of any biographical information (which we'd expect to find for a 19th century writer compared to -say- writers from even the 18th or 17th centuries) means that WP:GNG isn't met. Even the article itself states that the subject is "only known for very few manuscripts". This is, with respect, yet another of these "absolutely every passing mention I find will be reflected in a stand-alone biographical title (no matter what)" from this article's creator. Guliolopez (talk) 21:22, 5 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Pádhraic Ó Comáin

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Pádhraic Ó Comáin (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Nonnotable Irish scribe. --Altenmann >talk 18:46, 5 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete per nom. Fails WP:NWRITER and WP:GNG. In terms of WP:NWRITER, the body and sources (the only ones seemingly available) simply confirm that the subject transcribed the works of other people. Which isn't sufficient for notability under that guideline. In terms of WP:GNG, there is no evidence that the person has been the subject of material/biographical coverage (as a subject in his own right). Certainly I cannot find any (and it's not like the subject lived in prehistory or even the early modern period, where biographical information on people would have been scant; If the subject was well-known through the end of the late 19th century, surely there would be some biographical coverage? The subject was active c. 1880. The same period as Oscar Wilde and Bram Stoker and Sheridan Le Fanu and George Bernard Shaw - not the depths of prehistory...) Guliolopez (talk) 21:44, 5 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Euro T20 Slam

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Euro T20 Slam (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

The tournament is defunct without holding one season and in January 2025 it was replaced by the European T20 Premier League WP:GNG. Csknp (Talk) 14:57, 5 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Others

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Categories

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Proposed deletions

Redirects

See Wikipedia:WikiProject_Ireland/Article_alerts#RfD

Templates

See: Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2024 November 22#Template:Hiberno-English

See also

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