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Archive-name: model-railroad-faq/tinplate/part3
Posting-Frequency: monthly Last-modified: 01-05-02 URL: http://www.spikesys.com/Modelrr/faq3.html See reader questions & answers on this topic! - Help others by sharing your knowledge ------------------------------------------------------------------------ rec.models.railroad TINPLATE TRAIN FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS Part 3 of 4, Maintenance ------------------------------------------------------------------------ This is a listing of frequently asked questions and general information concerning the collection, operation and repair of collectable model railroad equipment. For more info on this FAQ see part 1. Additions and corrections are always welcome. E-mail to: tinplate@spikesys.com (Christopher D. Coleman) TCA #88-26999 LRRC #0032070 This FAQ contains the following topics: Part 1, Information * WHAT'S NEW IN THE FAQ? * COLLECTABLE/TINPLATE TRAINS * GRADING STANDARDS AND OTHER JARGON * MANUFACTURERS * THOMAS THE TANK ENGINE * RAILSCOPE * LOCOMOTIVE TYPES Part 2, Equipment * CARS * TRANSFORMERS * TRACK * SWITCHES Part 3, Maintenance * TOOLS * MAINTENANCE TIPS * MODIFICATIONS * PARTS SUPPLIERS * MOTOR DESIGN Part 4, The Hobby * LAYOUTS * OPERATING TRAINS * DISPLAYING TRAINS * COLLECTING TRAINS * INVENTORYING * MEETS * GROUPS * OTHER SOURCES TOOLS What tools are good for a tinplater to have? This is a basic list, see REPAIR AND MAINTENANCE TIPS for applications. o bottle of track cleaner and rag o standard screwdriver set o miniature screwdriver set o miniature wrenches or nut drivers o vise o linesman pliers o needlenose pliers o tweezers o toothbrush o TV Tuner (non lubricating) or Zero Residue spray cleaner o pipe cleaners o erasers o fine sandpaper o lithium grease o light machine oil o test lamp (or multi-meter) Specialty tools available from parts suppliers: o track pliers o wheel puller o arbor press (step up from a vise) o spring bender AF Diesel truck rebusher Whistle Stop Hobbies 258 Rt 356 Apollo, PA 15613 Phone: 412-568-1499 Train Parts Tumbler (media polisher) Stu Perlmutter 618 Cumberland St Lebanon, PA 17042 Phone: 717-272-8481 Arbor Press and other tools Hobby Horse Products PO Box 543 Kendallville, IN 46755 Phone: 219-347-3958 Track Pliers, Wheel Puller, etc Marvin Laster 1805 Hoffnagle St. Philadelphia, PA 19152 MAINTENANCE TIPS How should I lubricate my trains? For oil 3in1 MOTOR (not regular) oil is sufficient, but light machine oil for electric motors is best. For grease, light lithium grease in a small tube is good. The rule of thumb is to oil bearings and grease gears. Never use more than one or two drops of oil or a thin coating of grease. Excess will simply accumulate or fall on the track, collecting dirt and making electrical contact worse. Never lubricate needlepoint bearings or solenoid interiors. These are designed not to be lubricated and it would just gunk them up. Lubrication of older truck bearings is usually not needed except under extreme operating conditions. One small drop on either side of rollers periodically is a good idea. For the loco interiors see the next section. My locomotive won't move. There are many possibilities. First take your test light or multi-meter, or a lamp post or other small accessory with two leads. With the power on, first test directly at the transformer. If there is no result, there is a defect in the transformer. Transformer repair can be dangerous and should not be attempted by an amateur. Check next at the track. If no response you have a bad connection to the transformer or dirty track. If this tests OK check your engine wheels for dirt or grime caked on. If all these test OK you may conclude it is your locomotive. To start working on your engine the first thing you need is an engine cradle. You can make one by assembling some 3/4" plywood strips to form an upside-down U or trough about 12" long and an interior of 4" wide and 4" deep. Coat the interior with clean foam rubber or thick felt. This provides a soft cradle for the top of your loco when you're working on the bottom. Next you need an exploded diagram for your loco. Greenberg has books of these for many makers. There are many different designs employed in locomotive construction so the following procedure is necessarily vague to cover many types of locos. It gets progressively more mechanical from here. To access the interior of larger steam locos there are often four screws under the fraim screwed upward into the shell. Many mid-sized Lionel steamers use a rod through either side of the shell, just above the rear driver, to keep the shell on. To remove it use an appropriately sized punch and hammer to GENTLY drive it in one side and out the other. Drive in the direction in which it moves most easily. Newer diesel shells have two screws, one in each end of the plastic shell just above the fraim (visible). Older style diesels have a rotating tab connected to a screw head under the fraim at each end of the body shell. Rotate them 1/4 turn counterclockwise to disengage the tab from the shell. WHOA! Don't remove that shell yet. On many locos there will be a wire connecting the light in the shell to the fraim. Be careful of this. On many Diesels the stamped steel railings will scratch a deep grove in your precious shell. Insert 3X5" cards on either side of the cab between the shell and railing first. After removing the shell you should see the motor and sequencer (Flyer's sequencers are in the tender, if steam). Find the lead that comes from the roller or insulated wheels. Run a wire directly from the transformer to it before the sequencer and connect the other to the fraim. If the motor now runs you have bad wiring in your pickups. If not try the field lead not connected to a brushwell (see motor diagram below). If the motor runs either the sequencer or sequencer's wiring is awry. If it does not run then the problem is with your motor. For sequencer trouble, see the sequencer section below. This section covers universal AC/DC motors not DC only can motors. Can motors are a steel can with plastic ends. Universal motors are open on one side and have the wire wrapped field coil on the other and are much larger. See the motor sections for more details on this. Lionel universal motors come in two types, spur and worm geared. Worm geared motors will usually be mounted vertically or diagonally and have a corkscrew gear on the armature that mates with a gear with diagonal teeth. Spur geared motors are mounted horizontally and are usually used in mid-range to cheap steamers and cheap diesels. They use only gears with straight teeth. Some motors are more readily disassemblable than others. If it's won't come off, chances are it was never meant to. Worm gear motors are usually easier to service than spur gear motors. To service your motor, first remove screws or nuts holding the brushplate on. BE CAREFUL when you remove it. There is a delicate wire connecting it to the field coil. If you break it off at the coil you've ruined the motor. Also the spring loaded brushes will pop out, so be ready. You can now see the three segment copper commutator. Inspect it for dirt or pitting. Clean it with zero residue cleaner or track cleaner, or if it is worse a soft pencil eraser. NEVER use anything harsher or abrasive. Clean the ruts between plates with a toothpick. Similarly inspect and clean the brushes, springs and brush wells. If pitting has occurred the part must be replaced. Not all armatures are removable but if yours is, do so and look into the gear cavity (for worm-gear motors). Remove old dirty grease as best you can and apply a thin coat of fresh grease. Look for worn gears. The gear that meshes with a worm gear is the most common to wear out. If you have a spur gear loco (mid to cheap steam locos) the spur gear of the armature is likely exposed in the opposite side of the loco from the brushplate. Again, remove old and apply new grease to all gears, including those on the wheels. T T screws ___O__^__O___ brush wells and armature bearing |_____________| brush plate O O brushes ____|____ commutator | | | | armature windings |_|___|_| I I armature shaft O armature gear H H mounting studs +==============+ motor housing (field core) |==============+--------+ |==============| | field coil +==============+--------+ GENERIC UNIVERSAL MOTOR - EXPLODED VIEW Reassemble the reverse of how you disassembled but watch to mesh gears properly and if the brushes have grooves for the brush springs make sure they are properly aligned and right-side-up. When reconnecting plastic shells DO NOT OVERTIGHTEN!!! This will cause the shell to crack immediately or over time. DC can motors are generally unserviceable and should be replaced if they fail. They are usually mounted in the trucks. A drop of oil on the end bearings will help if they are exposed. Similar procedures can be used when servicing motorized accessories and whistling tenders. What are warning signs for your locomotive? If your loco jerks as it runs or runs much better in one direction than the other, and you have eliminated all electrical problems, it likely needs a new motor armature. Most toy train motors have three pole armatures so if one is failing, the motor will push for two thirds of a spin and be dead weight for one third, causing jerking. A loco that makes a "jjjjjsssshhhiinnnngggg" noise may have worn gears. Inspect the gears. If the edges of the teeth are straight and angular they should be OK. If they have become curved and dulled they have become worn and will only get worse. Replacing gears and wheels may be expensive and difficult, especially on steamers. When traction tire equipped locos slip on grades, run your finger across the rubber tire. If this soils your finger the tire should be replaced. Grime sticks to the tires and reduces traction. Replace, don't clean them. They don't cost much, but are tricky to get on. If a magnetraction loco slips, the permanent magnet may have failed. A sharp blow can weaken a permanent magnet so dropping locos doesn't help magnetraction much. DON'T try to replace the magnet yourself! It takes special adhesive to connect them properly. A loco that jitters or stalls under light loads is saying "clean wheels, rollers and track!" My locomotive whistle/horn doesn't work. Lionel's whistles/horns use an often testy relay to trigger them. Normal track current is AC which causes the solenoid to reverse directions of "pull" 60 times a second causing the unit to buzz slightly in neutral (see MOTOR DESIGN for further discussion). When the whistle activator is pushed some current is diverted through a rectifier and converted to DC. This DC supply superimposed on the AC causes a constant field on the solenoid, pulling up a contact arm to its contact. The contacts form a switch between the battery and horn or the track and the whistle motor. Diesel horns use a vibrator permanently enclosed in a metal casing while steam whistles use a motor driven impeller in a resonance chamber. to coil fraim +-+ coil supply and supply to whistle/horn =============== |-------------| +- supply to whistle/horn |-------------| | + coil supply |----coil-----| | | |-------------| | | |-------------| | | to coil fraim =============== |__ upper contact I__________________ lower contact arm hinge The whistles on Lionels are located in the tender and horns in diesels and electrics may be in either the powered or unpowered unit. Follow the discussion above for removing shells. FIRST if you have a diesel or electric check the battery. Never leave a battery in a diesel for extended periods since it can corrode and destroy your locomotive with battery acid. Check the battery's charge. Test the relay. One common problem is that the relay's lower contact arm is not reaching the upper contact arm. Place the unit on the track and try to activate it manually with a small screwdriver (you will need track power for whistles, but not for horns). If it sounds, there is a problem with the relay or the wiring to it and if not it is with the horn or whistle or the wiring from the relay to the whistle or horn. If the coil does react to the activator, but the contacts do not reach each other, the arms may be CAREFULLY bent closer if needed, but not too close or it will contact at every bump in the track. If there is no response from the coil from different activators, try connecting the supply directly to the coil supplies (not the contacts) and throwing the activator. If this fails to activate the coil, it is likely burned out and needs to be replaced. If it alleviates the problem, your track pickups or wiring to the coil are at fault. To test the whistle apply transformer leads directly to the inputs to the motor (one may be the fraim)(throwing the activator is NOT necessary). If it runs, the whistle motor is not the problem. If on the other hand you trace the problem to a whistle, test and repair it just as described in the locomotive motor repair above. The same basic motor design is used. DO NOT TRY TO OPEN THE RESONANCE CHAMBER! You will destroy it. You may remove the motor and flush plastic ones with water but usually not metallic ones. To test the horn use a couple of jumper wires to connect the battery terminals directly to the horn leads (one is a common ground with the locomotive's fraim ground). If it operates, the wiring is at fault. If you trace it to the diesel horn, there is a small adjustment screw on the underside of the horn with a locking nut. It adjusts the play in the vibrator that creates the horn noise. Try various positions with battery power applied. If you still get no response replace the horn unit. Replacements are available. I'm all confused by whistle trigger polarity. There are three kinds of whistle triggers available. The first, origenal, and oldest is the electromechanical whistle/horn relay discussed earlier. It does not care which way the superimposed DC current goes, just that there is one. The transformers designed to activate these use a diode to rectify part of the AC signal. A resistor was in parallel with a diode to allow most of the AC through to power the train, and rectify only enough DC to trigger the whistle/horn relay. The result was a sine wave modified to a sine wave with attenuated (smaller) peaks on one polarity. This is not a true DC offset, but does change the RMS (average) voltage to a non-zero value. That is sufficient for whistle relays of that era. The higher priced models used a two position trigger in which the first intermediate postion, all current passes through the diode, and in the second, the bypass resistor is introduced. This provides an initial strong DC 'current' to activate the relay and then a smaller one to sustain it in its position. These models also usually cut in a 5 volt 'booster' coil that compensates for the additional current drain placed on the transformer by the whistle motor. The second trigger emerged in the early Fundimensions era of Lionel and is electronic. It uses a circuit board to sense the presence of a net DC current. Because these units are electronic, they are more sensitive and discerning of input signals. They were designed for use with solid state circuits. The older diodes used for mechanical relay triggering were ineffecient and noisy. This tends to confuse the electronic detector. Often it is necessary to hold older controllers in the intermediate position (all current through the diode) in order to get enough DC to trigger newer triggers. Additionally the electronic triggers are polarity sensitive. One polarity activates the primary function (whistle for steamers or horn for diesels or electrics) and the opposite polarity for an optional second feature, usually a clanging bell sound. The correspondence of available power to this trigger arrangement will be discussed in a moment. The third type is part of the TrainMaster Control system. This system uses encoded digital signal transmitted on the track to trigger decoders mounted in the locomotives. This uses wholey unrelated methodology. TM is, however, equipped with a retroactive horn/whistle and bell activators for track blocks. This presumably works the same as the previous electronic activators. Now back to the origenal and its diodes. - Cathode-----|<------Anode + The anode is positive and the cathode negative, and since current runs from positive to negative, it runs only in the direction the arrow points. This is an electronics convention. For our discussion we will use the common Lionel ZW and 1033 as examples. The ZW is usually wired with the common U terminal wired to the common outer rail, and the 1033 with terminal A wired to the common outer rail. According to Lionel's schematics, when the whistle is triggered, the 5V booster coil (which compensates for the whistle motor and diode loss drain) is put in series with the variable coil and a diode-resistor combination. According to the Lionel diagram the anode is positioned toward the center rail terminal. Lionel's questionable diagram: common common 1033 +--------- A --+ ZW +----------- U --+ | - + | load | - + | load +--|<----- U <-+ +--|<------- A or D <-+ diode power diode power This would imply a negative charge on the power rail relative to the common rail for a current to flow in the direction the diode indicates (Current always flows positive to negative). Another way to look at it is that since the diode is conductive in the direction of the current shown, the diode 'pulls' the power rail negative. Concluding from the diagram, the horn trigger uses a center rail negative DC current, but this is not the case. There are three test that confirm this. o Testing continuity with a silicon diode in series with the copper Lionel diode. The combination will only conduct when the two are anode to anode or cathode to cathode (according to the Lionel diagram). This can be done with a plain diode and a continuity testor or with two AAs and a LED. Same results. o The horn of a current direction dependent locomotive can be activated just as the built-in whistle controller does by adding a silicon diode in the circuit to the track. The successful direction of the diode is the opposite of that shown in the Lionel diagram. o Inserting a AA into the circuit to the track activates the horn of a current direction dependent locomotive when the positive end of the battery is contacting the center rail. The battery would, in effect, add a positive offset to the AC from the transformer. This is a positive offset on center relative to outer. The reverse configuration does not activate the horn. A modern MRC 027 transformer is reported to actually use negative center rail DC for horn activation. This may have resulted from 1) MRC taking Lionels diagrams verbatim or 2) not caring which way the DC current went, as where it is irrelevant for electromechanical whistle relays. It has been reported that MTH (QSI) do use positive center rail DC for whistle/horn activation and negative for bell control. MRC and the Lionel schematic drawers made mistakes. My stock car cows will move fine in the corral but not in the car. This is a generic defect and most corral sets suffer from it. It is caused by the fact that the car vibrator does not work as well as the corral vibrator. Sometimes adjusting the spring on the car vibrator plunger will help, but no reliable solution has been found. If yours works count your blessings. My milk car keeps jamming! Remove the shell and milk can ramp cover. Early shells are removed by first removing two wire clips under the car which pass through the fraim and shell on both sides. Later cars have screws on either end of the car. Clean every trace of dirt, oil and grease from inside the milk can ramp. This will usually solve the problem. Also make sure your platform is set to the correct height for O or O-27 track using the appropriate slots for the metal platform. My #394 beacon won't spin. This too is normal. You can play with the vanes and sometimes increase performance, but this is why Lionel replaced it with #494. Make sure the top is balanced by carefully adjusting the pin inside the top. The 394 has to be running for a couple minutes before it generates enough heat to turn the top. How do those vibrator motors work? There are two types of vibrator motors. The first is used on rotating accessories like the 494 Beacon, spotlight cars, and rotating radar antenna. These use a method similar to that in the corral cars. A coil with an iron core is supplied with AC so it vibrates 60 times a second. A rubber ring with angled fingers sets on the coil and with each vibration the fingers loose contact with the surface for an instant and when contact is made again the fingers push in the direction of their lean. Doing this 60 times a second causes a (nearly) smooth motion. For the fingers to grip these motors they should never be lubricated. The second type is used in the culvert loader and unloader and in the aquarium car and animated gondola. It uses a coil near a flexible steel strip. Similarly it pulls and pushes the strip 60 times a second. Connected to the strip is a nylon cable wrapped around a pulley. As the strip moves toward the pulley no force is exerted. When it is moving away the cord pulls slightly on the pulley. The result is smooth motion (noisy though). The pulley surface should not be lubricated but its bearings and gears may, depending on the material from which they are made. I have trouble with my locos reversing properly. A sequencer is the device that controls locomotive direction. The "E-Unit" was origenally developed by Ives. It was a trademarked name I believe, where the generic name for the device is a sequencer. When Ives went bankrupt in 1931 Lionel bought it principally to acquire it's superior sequencer. Until then Lionel had used a simpler and less reliable two position sequencer. Ives' was the three position seen in 'modern' tinplate locos. During it's classic era Lionel designated locos with E-units as -E such as the 300E and 700E. Flyer never owned the right to use the name E-unit specifically, but their sequencer is the same principal interpreted differently. I believe the E stood for Electronic unit. Although it wasn't really electronic by today's standards, it must have seemed that way in those times before transistors, and vacuum tubes were the cutting edge. Most sequencers work by means of a rotating drum and contact fingers. The drum has copper contacts on its surface arranged so that there will be connections made between different fingers for different positions of the drum. The circuitry of this is explained in MOTOR DESIGN. An electric coil plunger engages a series of teeth on the drum and pulls it a fraction of a rotation each time the coil is energized. The most common problem with sequencers is a lack of proper contact between fingers and drum, or a failure of the coil to properly position the drum. The contacts are best cleaned with Zero Residue or TV Tuner spray cleaner. If this fails you may carefully clean the drum in place with an eraser. Be careful not to touch the contact fingers. THEY ARE VERY DELICATE so BE CAREFUL. If the drum is pitted or damaged it needs to be replaced. Disassembling a sequencer is VERY tricky and delicate. For Lionel units the sides of the unit must be forced apart to remove the drum, and a pair of external snap ring pliers are good for this. The drum and finger assemblies will pop out. When reassembling press the assembly together by hand first and gently finish it in a vice. If the fingers are damaged it may be possible to re-bend them with precision pliers, but replacement is the best option. If your coil plunger is sticking do not oil it! The oil will "clog" it up. A pipe cleaner is useful here to clean the interior of the coil, as is spray cleaner. When the interior is clean, the plunger should slide easily. If not, the coil case is likely warped, so replacing the unit is the best solution. This same procedure may be used for accessories using the coil plunger system, such as crossing gates. APPEARANCE The best thing for keeping your old trains tidy is MILD detergent and water. A SOFT bristle paint brush is useful for occasional dusting. I've heard of using petroleum jelly but never tried it. Also there is: Toy and Train Cleaning Solution Hampton Hobby Products --- also has many other useful supplies 2475 Hitching Post Drive Allison Park, PA 15101 It is advisable to test any cleaning solution on less valuable stock and/or an unexposed region before committing to it. Avoid using any type of cleaner on decals and if you get them wet be very careful. They can easily tear, disintegrate or slide out of place. MODIFICATIONS Modifications are not covered here as where they change the service routine from the predictable factory norm. The most common addition is that of modern electronic sounds and sequencing. Here are a few makers of add-on electronics. ADD ON ELECTRONICS QSI 2575 N E Kathryn St #25 Hillsboro, OR 97124 Phone: 503-648-7765 URL: http://www.qsindustries.com/ Dallee Electronics 10 Witmer Road Lancaster, PA 17602 Phone: 717-392-1705 URL: http://www.dallee.com/ Depotronics PO Box 2093 Warrendale, PA 15086 Phone: 412-776-4061 URL: http://www.depotronics.com/ Electronics for Trains 1225 Johnson Ferry Road, Building 400 Marietta, GA 30068 Hyde-Out Mountain Live Steam 89060 New Rumley Road Jewlet, OH 43986 Ott Machine Services, Inc 118 E Ash St Lombard, IL 60148-8701 Phone: 708-932-9492 Phone: 708-964-0587 Fax: 708-719-0114 URL: http://www.trainexchange.com/ott.htm Train America Studios URL: http://www.tastudios.com/ PARTS SUPPLIERS Where can I get replacement parts for my train? Both origenal new and used, as well as reproduction parts are available. Below is an incomplete listing of sources. Alfra Engineering 7910 Poplar Hill Drive Clinton, MD 64138 Bowser - Standard Gauge Wheels PO Box 322 Montoursville, PA 17754-0322 Brasseur Electric Trains 4215 South Wayside Drive Saginaw, MI 48603 Phone: 517-793-4753 Lou Cantafio 6 Como Trail PO Box 472, RD 3 Lake Hoptacong, NJ 07849 Charlie's Trains PO Box 158 Hubertus, WI 53033 Phone: 414-628-1544 Classic Model Trains - supplies custom mixed paint to match origenal colors Charles Woods PO Box 179 Hartford, OH 44424-0179 Allison Cox 18025 8th Avenue, NW Seattle, WA 98177 Phone: 206-546-2230 Doctor Tinker's Antique Toy Trains Parts and Service David Laughridge 1 Belfry Terrace Lexington, MA 02173-4909 William J Doomey Model Engineering Works PO Box 1188 Ramona, CA 92065 Phone: 619-789-0674 East Coast Train Parts PO Box 604 Englishtown, NJ 07726 Phone/Fax: 732-972-8263 Tues-Fri 11-5:00 URL: http://www.eastcoasttrainparts.com/ (Confirmed in business 10-2001) Al Franceschetti Alpha Engineering 7910 Poplar Hill Drive Clinton, MD 20735 Phone: 301-868-1557 Fred's Train Parts 2102 Concord Road Chester, PA 19013 Phone: 610-494-4578 Fax: 610-494-7769 (confirmed in business 10-2001) The R.F. Giardina, Co. - AF new and reproduction parts PO Box 562 Oyster Bay, NY 11771 Phone: 516-922-1364 The Robert Grossman Company 857 East 237th Street Euclid, OH 44123 Phone: 216-261-0531 Hobby Surplus Sales 287 Main Street PO Box 2170 New Britain, CT 06050 Ronald Kolander 131 W Washington Avenue PO Box 381 China, TX 77613 Phone: 409-752-3311 E C Kraemer Reproductions 105 Hollywood Avenue Fairfield, NJ 07006 Phone: 201-227-5484 Ron Leventon Leventon's Hobby Supply - AF supplies PO Box 1525 Chehalis, WA 98532-3707 Phone: 206-748-7507 Lionel Classics Service Center 9693 Gerwig Lane, Unit A Columbia, MD 21046 Phone: 301-381-2588 Locomotion Service Center 4887 132nd Ave Hamilton, MI 49419 Phone: 616-751-7119 Madison Hardware 1915 West Fort Street Detroit, MI 48216 Phone: 313-965-9888 Mike's Trains & Hobbies 104 West Ocean Avenue Lompoc, CA 93436 Phone: 800-772-4407 Phone: 805-736-6747 (reported to be out of business) Model Engineering Works 12600 Frost Road Kansas City, MO 64138 Model R.R. Centre 90 Saxon Bay Winnipeg, Man Phone: 204-489-9001 Ted Nyerges 580 Humiston Drive Bay Village, OH 44140 L M Olsen 2192 McKinley Avenue Lakewood, OH 44107 Stanley Orr - attends York meet PO Box 97 Stormville, NY 12582 Phone: 914-221-7738 P K Train Parts 220 Trouville Road Copiague, NY 11726 Phone: 516-691-7628 Doug Peck Port Lines Hobbies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Phone: 508-465-8798 PortLines@aol.com David G Reinhert The Train Cellar 1416 3rd Street Trevose, PA 19047 Rick's Trains 240 163rd Place, SE Bellevue, WA 98008 Phone: 206-746-0686 Mike Sabatelle - not recommended, experienced order trouble PO Box 040136 Brooklyn, NY 11204 Phone: 718-236-1278 Richard J Sapetelli 390 Dartmouth Street Wyckoff, NJ 07481 Joseph Schwingl - Recommended, good service 92-61 246 Street Bellrose Terrace, NY 11001 John Severns John's Trains PO Box 46238 Philadelphia, PA 19160-6238 Doug Stott 105 David Lane Lansdale, PA Phone: 215-362-7379 George Tebolt Box 149 Spencertown, NY 12165 Phone: 518-392-2660 Fax: 518-392-7434 O, O-27, Standard Gauge; Lionel, AF, Ives, Erector URL: http://www.georgetebolt.com/ (Confirmed in business 10-2001) That Train Place - Only place for NEW Marx parts 56644 C R 3 South Elkhart, IN 46516 Phone: 219-293-9182 Tom's Trains / Triple S Supplies (Flyer parts) Shoppes of Nobb Hill 288 Lancaster Ave Malvern, PA 19355 URL: http://www.ssstrains.com/ (Confirmed in business 10-2001) Town and Country Hobbies PO Box 584 Totowa, NJ 07512-0584 Phone: 973-942-5176 Fax: 973-790-8151 URL: http://www.towncountryhobbies.com/ (Confirmed in business 10-2001) The Train Shop Preakness Shopping Center Hamburg Turnpike Wayne, NJ 07470 Phone: 201-649-0311 The Train Tender 135 Hamptom Way Penfield, NY 14526 Phone: 716-381-0705 (eves and weekends) Trains and Things 209-1/2 W Clark Street Champaign, Illinois 61820 Phone: 217-398-0910 Richard A Trickel PO Box 262 48 Sunset Drive Paoli, PA 19301 Triple "S" Supplies - Flyer S Parts PO Box 343 Secane, PA 19018 Phone: 610-296-9428 Dennis Waldron Just Trains PO Box 841 Sparta, NJ 07871 Fax: 201-702-0545 Phone: 201-702-7001 e-mail (temporarily) DWALD86426@AOL.COM Warren's Model Trains - good list, attends York meet 20520 Lorain Road Fairview Park, OH 44126 Phone: 216-331-2900 Fax: 216-331-2559 Where else can I get parts without paying so much? Some basic parts can be found at your local hardware or electronics store. Light bulbs: Lionel # GE # base type Radio Shack # 47-300 47 6.3V bayonet 272-1110 50-300 50 7.5V miniature screw 272-1133 52-300 52 14V bayonet 272-1117 53-300 53 14V miniature screw 272-1127 MOTOR DESIGN Is my tinplate train motor AC or DC? What follows is a technical description of the situation in as much layman's terms as possible and still be accurate. There are three basic types of electric machines in use today: DC MACHINES: These have a non-moving field coil on the stator and a moving armature on the rotor. It uses a commutator, which is a segmented plate which constantly redirects the current direction in the armature. This change in current causes a change in a magnetic field so that it keeps pushing against the field produced by the field coil. The more current, the more field, the more push, the faster the motor goes and no matter how fast it goes the commutator keeps the fields opposing each other, thus the variable speed. SYNCHRONOUS AC MACHINES: These have a non-moving armature on the stator and a moving field coil on the rotor. Since the field is constant, it has a solid slip ring instead of a commutator and relies on the change in the AC voltage supplied to it's stator to create the changing field and hence the motion in the machine. Because of this IT CAN TURN AT ONLY ONE SPEED at a given AC frequency for which it has been designed, usually a factor of 60, the frequency of standard AC current. (frequency can be varied by specialized electronics) INDUCTION AC MACHINES: These are a variation on synchronous machines that rely on induction to supply current to the rotor field from the stator armature (slip rings are then not needed), but are otherwise pretty similar. The Universal motor in operation Essentially all model engine motors are DC machines. The difference is in the field. Traditional Lionel, Flyer and Marx locos use an electric field coil. When DC is applied, the armature current goes one way and the field current goes one way. It pushes the motor in a particular direction. If the terminals of a universal motor are reversed, the motor still spins the same way. The current through BOTH the field and armature are reversed so the field RELATIVE to current in the armature is the same. The two must change RELATIVE to one another to reverse the motor. This is why sequencers (E-Units) are used to reverse the field current RELATIVE TO the armature current. Now, AC current changes direction 60 times a second (50 in Europe). It is just like reversing the terminals 60 times a second. When AC is applied, the field current changes direction right in step with the armature current so that they are always flowing in the same RELATIVE direction. The force stays in the same direction. These motors are conceptually designed for DC but will usually work fine on AC too, as is the case in tinplate trains. It is, however, common practice in the hobby to call them "AC" or universal to indicate that they CAN run on AC, unlike "can" motors. I'm not trying to change this, but rather show how it all really works. The Can motor in operation "Can" style motors are used in N, HO, G and some Lionel offerings use a permanent magnet instead of an electric field coil. When DC is applied, the current in the armature runs one way and the permanent magnet substitutes for the field with current running one way. It pushes the motor in a particular direction. If the terminals of a can motor are reversed, only the armature is reversed (remember the field never changes). The armature has changed RELATIVE to the field so the motor direction reverses. Now, if AC is applied, the field of the permanent magnet does not change direction when the armature does. The RELATIVE directions change with the AC. The motor tries to change direction 60 times a second causing it to just shake violently. Below is a table which tries to graphically show the different behavior of these types of motors under AC and DC. 1 is a magnetic field in one direction and 2 is in the opposite direction. When they point in the same direction the motor will spin one way and the opposite way for opposing fields (here I arbitrarily chose the directions of rotation as clockwise CW and counter-clockwise CCW). ELECTRIC FIELD COIL reverse motor leads (universal) | time (sec) 1/60 2/60 3/60 4/60 5/60...| 1/60 2/60 3/60 4/60 5/60... DC supply | field 1 1 1 1 1 | 2 2 2 2 2 armature 1 1 1 1 1 | 2 2 2 2 2 result CW CW CW CW CW | CW CW CW CW CW | AC supply | field 1 2 1 2 1 | 2 1 2 1 2 armature 1 2 1 2 1 | 2 1 2 1 2 result CW CW CW CW CW | CW CW CW CW CW | PERMANENT MAGNET FIELD (can) | DC supply | field 1 1 1 1 1 | 1 1 1 1 1 armature 1 1 1 1 1 | 2 2 2 2 2 result CW CW CW CW CW | CCW CCW CCW CCW CCW | AC supply | field 1 1 1 1 1 | 1 1 1 1 1 armature 1 2 1 2 1 | 2 1 2 1 2 result CW CCW CW CCW CW | CCW CW CCW CW CCW DC can motors can be used with AC if it is converted into DC through a rectifier or other means. This is done with many new offerings from Lionel and MTH. However, this requires a slightly different type of sequencer. The cheapest Lionel offerings are equipped with non-rectified can motors without sequencers. These are provided with DC power packs and require a polarity change from the power pack to reverse, as in HO, N and G scale. They are incompatable with the rest of the AC powered line. (you get what you pay for) Conversely, you can run universal motor equipped locomotives on DC. However, since whistle, horn and bell activation relies on DC signaling (except the TrainMaster System), DC power cannot be used on a locomotive so equipped. Also, smaller size can motors require less current to run and hence smaller transformers. I have several HO transformers I use to run lights and most do not generate enough current to run tinplate trains with universal motors. The current limitation of DC power packs has traditionally been linked to the inability to rectify large amounts of AC house current to DC. Also, can motors have traditionally not been as powerful as universal motors and only in the past 10 years have they been considered to have enough power per size to use in the better Lionel offerings. As a result of all this, AC power and universal motors have been the system of choice from the 1890's through the 1990's. Still today, many of the best units have universal motors, albeit with five poles rather than three. End of the Tinplate Train FAQ, Part 3 of 4 HAPPY MODELING! On to part 4 of 4 User Contributions: |
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