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Has there been any new evidence on EMDR in the last 16 years?

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@Bon courage, you've reverted several people who've said that evidence has been gathered in the last 16 years, even though there are multiple sources in the article that show that. Can we get consensus that evidence has been gathered in the last 16 years and therefore the 2008 point needs to be removed the summary? Tom B (talk) 15:50, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Has the National Institute of Medicine changed their view? It's due to mention. Research has tailed off since EMDR's heyday and many views are simply settled. Bon courage (talk) 15:53, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
what one country's institute said in 2008 isn't weighty enough to be in lead, compared with all the research undertaken since 2008 and all the institutions such as the UN, EU, UK etc, Tom B (talk) 16:04, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, now you're edit warring. Suppressing one view that you evidently don't like is POV-pushing. Bon courage (talk) 16:12, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I see no indication that their view has changed, and the IoM view would seem to be just as relevant as the other organizations mentioned in the lead. MrOllie (talk) 17:46, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, seems a bit odd to exclude orgs according to their view. Bon courage (talk) 17:47, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
not according to their view, but that it is out of date. That I see 2008 as 16 years ago and lots of evidence has been undertaken since then, isn't a point of view, it is maths, Tom B (talk) 08:38, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
it's also merely one institution from one country, not a government or the UN etc. Again, that I think that isn't a point of view, it's a fact. You thinking something the NHS and UN uses is fringe science is POV pushing and edit warring. That something is supported by the UN, EU and UK means it cannot be fringe or pseudoscience, Tom B (talk) 08:55, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What rubbish. The most recent MEDRS on this seem to view it just as pseudoscientific fluff, working just because of the non-fluff basis (i.e. the not EMDR parts). Bon courage (talk) 09:04, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Got a source? that it is supported by the UN, EU and UK is not rubbish, Tom B (talk) 09:13, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The rubbish is the WP:OR that because of this that or the other, we can ignore RS because it "cannot be" fringe or pseudoscience. I suggest reading this page's archives. Bon courage (talk) 09:16, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That something is supported by the UN, EU and UK isn't OR, Tom B (talk) 09:33, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
the World Health Organization in 2023 recommended EMDR for adults and children treating PTSD with moderate evidence. The American Psychological Association recommended EMDR for PTSD treatment in 2023. Similarly, other international and national health organizations have provided varying levels of endorsement for EMDR, recognizing it as an effective treatment option for PTSD. I.e it cannot be fringe science. The World Health Organisation is not fringe, Tom B (talk) 09:36, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And the thread at FTN is also useful.[1] Bon courage (talk) 09:42, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Of course it can be fringe science. These groups are subject to politics just like any other - look at the WHO's record on Traditional Chinese Medicine, the APA on Energy psychology. India has a whole ministry set up to promote Ayurveda and Homeopathy. MrOllie (talk) 11:34, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This article is dangerous to those suffering from PTSD given the sources are outdated.
2023
National Center for PTSD. (2023). PTSD Trials Standard Data Repository (PTSD-Repository) [Data set]. https://ptsd-va.data.socrata.com
2022
Susanty, E., Sijbrandij, M., Srisayekti, W., Suparman, Y., & Huizink, A. C. (2022) The effectiveness of Eye Movement Desensitization for post-traumatic stress disorder in Indonesia: A randomized controlled trial. Frontiers in Psychology, 13, 845520. https://doi.org/10.3389/fpsyg.2022.845520
2018
International Society for Traumatic Stress Studies (ISTSS). (2018). ISTSS PTSD prevention and treatment guidelines: Methodology and recommendations. Author. Retrieved from: http://www.istss.org/getattachment/Treating Trauma/New-ISTSS-Prevention-and-Treatment-Guidelines/ISTSS_ PreventionTreatmentGuidelines_FNL-March-19-2019.pdf.aspx
2016
Cusack, K., Jonas, D. E., Forneris, C. A., Wines, C., Sonis, J., Middleton, J. C., Feltner, C., Brownley, K. A., Olmsted, K. R., Greenblatt, A., Weil, A, & Gaynes, B. N. (2016). Psychological treatments for adults with posttraumatic stress disorder: A systematic review and meta-analysis. Clinical Psychology Review, 43, 128-141. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cpr.2015.10.003 2600:1700:6E0:D930:CCC1:6784:2BB3:D42F (talk) 16:31, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Cusack et al. is already cited on the article. The others don't meet WP:MEDRS. MrOllie (talk) 19:03, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Society and culture

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Is anything in this section due for this article? EMDR was important to these people, but were these people important to EMDR? I tend to think not. If the Oprah thingey was widely covered and significantly influenced public views on EMDR I could be convinced to move it to the "history" section, but I prefer removal. Draken Bowser (talk) 13:53, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Some WP:MEDTRIVIA is usual for medical topics, including media mentions that have garnered coverage. This would be the right place for them per MOS:MED. Bon courage (talk) 14:13, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 August 2024

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Sources are credible but dated. The APA has published more recent studies backing the use of EMDR. This article condemns the practice as purple hat therapy which is not a widely accepted belief and this information is inaccurate and dangerous.


The initial definition is bias and lacks information. The source is outdated.

Change the statement “ (EMDR) is a form of psychotherapy that is a recommended treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder, but remains controversial within the psychological community.” This is an opinion not a definition of the treatment.

To reflect a more recent publication from the APA stating:


A structured therapy that encourages the patient to briefly focus on the trauma memory while simultaneously experiencing bilateral stimulation (typically eye movements), which is associated with a reduction in the vividness and emotion associated with the trauma memories.

Unlike other treatments that focus on directly altering the emotions, thoughts and responses resulting from traumatic experiences, EMDR therapy focuses directly on the memory, and is intended to change the way that the memory is stored in the brain, thus reducing and eliminating the problematic symptoms. “

[1]


Remove “ Treatment guidelines note EMDR effectiveness is statistically the same as trauma-focused behavioral therapy, and the Australian National Health and Medical Research Council notes that this may be due to including most of the core elements of cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT)” as this statement cannot be support by citation and it is common practice for therapy modalities to overlap.

Edit training section to included the APA guide to clinical practice: [2]

Remove “ This included requiring the completion of an EMDR training program in order to be qualified to administer EMDR properly after researchers using the initial written instructions found no difference between no-eye-movement control groups and EMDR-as-written experimental groups”

replace with the more factual information that EMDR training is widely available with several reputable agencies and cost varies depending on training. This information is easily accessible via quick google search “emdr training.”

[3]

Remove EMDR is recommended for the treatment of PTSD by various government and medical bodies citing varying levels of evidence, including the World Health Organization, the UK National Institute for Health and Care Excellence, the Australian National Health and Medical Research Council, and the US Departments of Veteran Affairs and Defense. The US National Institute of Medicine found insufficient evidence to recommend EMDR.[7]

Replace with:

EMDR has the highest recommendation across most clinical practice guidelines, including the Veterans Affairs/Department of Defense (VA/DoD) Clinical Practice Guideline for Management of PTSD, the International Society for Traumatic Stress Studies (ISTSS), United Kingdom's National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE), and Australian National Health and Medical Research Council.

[4]

[5]

Remove: EMDR is recommended for the treatment of PTSD by various government and medical bodies citing varying levels of evidence, including the World Health Organization, the UK National Institute for Health and Care Excellence, the Australian National Health and Medical Research Council, and the US Departments of Veteran Affairs and Defense. The US National Institute of Medicine found insufficient evidence to recommend EMDR.[7]

Replace with more current and accurate information: “ Early trials in the 1990's were less methodologically rigorous, resulting in conflicting results regarding how quickly the treatment worked and its efficacy. In the last several years, there have been more rigorous studies that support EMDR's efficacy using a 3-month protocol. RCTs have compared EMDR to waitlist/usual care and other trauma focused and non-trauma focused psychotherapies. Recent meta-analyses suggest that EMDR produces moderate to strong treatment effects in regard to PTSD symptom reduction, depression symptom reduction and loss of PTSD diagnosis”


[6] 2600:1700:6E0:D930:CCC1:6784:2BB3:D42F (talk) 16:21, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.apa.org/ptsd-guideline/ptsd.pdf
  2. ^ https://www.apa.org/ptsd-guideline/treatments/eye-movement-reprocessing
  3. ^ https://www.google.com/search?q=emdr+training&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS1122US1122&oq=emdr+training+&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIKCAEQABjJAxiABDIKCAIQABiSAxiABDIHCAMQABiABDIHCAQQABiABDIHCAUQABiABDIHCAYQABiABDIHCAcQABiABDIHCAgQABiABDIHCAkQABiABNIBCDg3OTdqMGo3qAIasAIB4gMEGAEgXw&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
  4. ^ https://www.ptsd.va.gov/professional/treat/txessentials/emdr_pro.asp
  5. ^ National Center for PTSD. (2023). PTSD Trials Standard Data Repository (PTSD-Repository) [Data set]. https://ptsd-va.data.socrata.com
  6. ^ Watts, B. V., Schnurr, P. P., Mayo, L., Young-Xu, Y., Weeks, W. B., & Friedman, M. J. (2013). Meta-analysis of the efficacy of treatments for posttraumatic stress disorder. The Journal of Clinical Psychiatry, 74(6), e541-e550. https://doi.org/10.2088/jcp.12r08225
 Not done This amounts to a request to whitewash the article and add promotional text. That's now how Wikipedia is written. - MrOllie (talk) 19:02, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 January 2025

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−
[...]in the treatment of Chronic PTSD[...]
+
[...]in the treatment of chronic PTSD[...]

Correction of erroneously capitalized word 'chronic' in the first sentence of section 2.1.1 of the article.

G3560 (talk) 14:54, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

 Done LizardJr8 (talk) 19:30, 7 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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