[Spoilers: Ch. 94] Why is nobody talking about.....

submitted 7 hours ago by Porusm

(self.HPMOR)

.... Fred and George, and them being the Heir of Gryffindor? Does this mean something at all? Are there heirs of Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw too, since we have Slytherin and now Gryffindor? Also note the singular "Heir" and not "Heirs". I mean, really, I'm not sure what it means, or if it means anything at all actually. What I really want to know is why nobody has been talking about it. Like at all. I haven't seen anybody mention this. Not one person. So maybe we can discuss this here; what it means and whether it has any relevance to the plot of the rest of the story.
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[]Porusm[S] 4 points 4 hours ago

Something I just realised - both the Slytherin and Gryffindor heirs both were revealed whenever they were wearing the Sorting Hat; it had some part to play in both their reveals. Is that a coincidence?
permalink []WriterBen01Sunshine Regiment 4 points 6 hours ago

For heir of slytherin, it has always been a name, describing what Harry and Riddle could do, but not giving them any special powers or anything. I guess nobody talks about it because we cannot think of any hook we have been given that becomes significant if we know the Weasleys are descendants of Gryffindor.
permalink []HPMOR_fanSunshine Regiment 4 points 5 hours ago

In canon the heir of Slytherin was very real and significant. He had to be (I think) a blood descendent of Salazar, which was necessary to speak parseltongue. The heir of Slytherin is the one who could open the chamber of secrets. Harry only appeared to be the heir of slytherin because there was a piece of Voldemort's soul (in canon) in Harry. In MOR, if anything the title is even more significant because the heir also learned Slytherin's secrets from the basilisk.
permalink parent []WriterBen01Sunshine Regiment 3 points 2 hours ago

It has been suggested that a lot of Parseltongue speakers exist, afraid to admit it because they'd be called dark lords. Both in canon and HPMoR, the parseltongue ability was significant, while the 'heir of Slytherin' bit was

simply used as a way to describe them. In MOR, somebody who was also the heir of slytherin learned those secrets. What I'm getting at, is that there are no items that only activate if you are an heir, or any rooms that will only open to you. Heck, Ron Weasly got into the chamber of secrets simply by repeating the parseltongue phrase he had heard from Harry. It's a meaningless title in that it does not unlock anything new. Kind of like calling Hermione the witch with the best marks of the year. Yes, the person with best marks is probably the most powerful, but simply being called the best does not give additional benefits.
permalink parent []HPMOR_fanSunshine Regiment 3 points 4 hours ago

I haven't read much fan fiction, but I wonder if the idea of a singular Heir of Gryffindor is a common theme. Anyone know?
permalink []p_prometheusSunshine Regiment 4 points 4 hours ago

Yep. Usually Harry is the heir.

permalink parent []EliezerYudkowskyGeneral Chaos 9 points 47 minutes ago

And they who write that are suffering from Protagonist-Induced Blindness. It's obvious who the two most Gryffindor students in Hogwarts are if you just look. They're the only two students who truly have no ingrained fear of authority, the only two students who told Umbridge to just shove it.
permalink parent []Linmark 2 points 3 hours ago

So what does the author do with it ? Will they hear the call of the poenix too, soon ? Also I don't think we're going to see the Heirs of Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff in this year. That would be a strange coincidence.
permalink []goodoldgrim 2 points 6 hours ago

Was there actually something about them being descended from Godric Gryffindor? All I remember is that one of them pulled Gryffindor's sword from the Sorting Hat, which, in canon, could be done by any true Gryffindor.
permalink []dspeyer 3 points 42 minutes ago

"Do you in fact assign greater than fifty percent subjective probability that there is something like a Heir of Gryffindor and one or both Weasley twins are it. Yes or no, evasion means yes. You're not going to succeed in distracting me, no matter how much I have to go to the bathroom."

The old wizard sighed. "Yes, Fred and George Weasley are the Heir of Gryffindor. I beg you not to speak of it to them, not yet." But presumably it has nothing to do with descent, because then Percy would also be the heir of Gryffindor. It seems entirely in character for Godric to declare that anyone with the right virtues is his heir, and to let the hat judge that. Whether he left anything to his heir... well... there's the sword at least.
permalink parent []AretiiDragon Army 1 point 59 minutes ago

It's definitely been mentioned. http://www.reddit.com/r/HPMOR/comments/1hy7dz/so_harrys_been_studyi ng_spoilers_ch_94/caz7e0b

permalink []maxikov 1 point 57 seconds ago

How can Fred and George be the Heirs of Gryffindor without all of their siblings and at least one of the ancestral lines being the Heirs as well?

HPMOR's fanfic recommendations?

submitted 7 hours ago by wNekoDragon Army

(self.HPMOR)

Specifically, what other fanfics can you guys recommend that involve the main character abusing the universe's mechanics. Excluding, of course, the fanfics that EY already recommended in author's notes
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[]JurilySunshine Regiment 11 points 5 hours ago

Not fanfic, but I think you'd like Erfworld.

permalink []davidmanheimSunshine Regiment 4 points 4 hours ago

Definitely themed correctly, but I never would have thought about it in this context. Good call.
permalink parent []BassoonHero 3 points 4 hours ago

Ooh, nice, I didn't even think about the similarities until you pointed them out.
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[]wNekoDragon Army[S] 1 point 1 hour ago

Ah yes, I read Erfworld. I absolutely adore it.

permalink parent []PeridexisErrantSunshine Regiment 6 points 4 hours ago

Harry Potter is pretty well covered, so a few others: If you don't miss mind Naruto, ShaperV's Time Braid is amazing, with plot, characters, world building, and also awesome fights by the end. For Pokemon, don't miss Ashes of the Past - it's basically a light hearted time travel fic, where none of the plots stand up to an experienced protagonist with far more power than should be had so early. Exploited powers include Squirtle using a giga drill breaker (he's a fan), riolu using rasengan aura sphere, Ash using cast-from-HP ghost moves to fight mewtwo, and picachu using earthquake. In his words "it's only the ground shaking, not terribly hard to fake". Haigeki by Xylix is certainly the best Ranma 1/2 - magical girl fusion ever written, and delves deep into questions about identity in the face of imposed mental reshaping (and fight scenes, and history, and cameos). This claim treats on a clear day you can see forever as an original work, which it pretty much is. The Paladin Protocol by SpaceAnJL is an amazing Big Bang Theory fix-fic, and treats some of the implications of (say) academic dishonesty a little more seriously. Finally, Far Beyond Normal by jA-kL is a Buffy/Stargate AU cross which takes the power imbalances more literally, and features a gritty portrayal of the US governments willingness to do any sort of dirty deal which now seems chillingly accurate. Of course, they can justify torture on the grounds of an imminent alien invasion... No links sorry - on my phone - but hopefully something interesting is in here. I always like reading these threads myself...
permalink []eaturbrainzSunshine Regiment 1 point 3 hours ago

Exploited powers include Squirtle using a giga drill breaker (he's a fan), riolu using rasengan aura sphere Delicious.
permalink parent []eaturbrainzSunshine Regiment 3 points 3 hours ago

Ok, jokes aside, try anything, "fan"fic or not, connected with hard scifi. There's a sweetspot where the hard-scifi limits are hard enough to give a good sense of the impossible while soft enough to allow awesome

munchkining -- which is more justifiable because of how it has to fit within some notion of science.
permalink []turntekGodheadChaos Legion 2 points 1 hour ago

Ooooh, I can recommend an amazing piece of hard science fanfic. Http://fanfiction.net/s/7406866/1/To-the-Stars This was the first piece of non-MoR fanfiction I read. The world is very, very well thought out.
permalink parent []turntekGodheadChaos Legion 1 point 50 minutes ago

Wait I think I found to the stars via author note recommendation. S:

permalink parent []eaturbrainzSunshine Regiment 1 point 46 minutes ago

Yeah, I definitely found that one via EY's recommendation. And I'd forgotten about it after I reached the latest chapter all year and something ago when I first read it.
permalink parent []pax7 2 points 3 hours ago*

Not fanfic, but I recommend /r/KingkillerChronicle. Similar length, protagonist and in-depth explanation of magic.
permalink []bbrazilSunshine Regiment Lieutenant 5 points 5 hours ago

Harry Potter and the Natural 20

permalink []Bulwersator 8 points 4 hours ago

Excluding, of course, the fanfics that EY already recommended in author's notes

permalink parent []eaturbrainzSunshine Regiment -2 points 5 hours ago

The average self-insert fic of everything.

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Hermione theories without transfiguration (spoilers through chapter 94) (self.HPMOR)

submitted 2 hours ago* by kalban777Dragon Army

A lot of people have been theorizing that Hermione's body has been transfigured. I'm not sure that's correct since transfiguration can have side effects.

From chapter 15: "Is it possible to Transfigure a living subject into a target that is static, such as a coin - no, excuse me, I'm terribly sorry, let's just say a steel ball." Professor McGonagall shook her head. "Mr. Potter, even inanimate objects undergo small internal changes over time. There would be no visible changes to your body afterwards, and for the first minute, you would notice nothing wrong. But in an hour you would be sick, and in a day you would be dead." While Hermione is not living, minor changes could still be bad for resurrection. Part of the brain shifting by a few millimeters would be catastrophic for brain function. So what are some theories of what happened to Hermione's body that don't involve it being transfigured? Off the top of my head I have: 1. Harry snuck it out by leviosa-ing it under his invisibility cloak. (Unlikely) 2. Voldemort turned it into an Inferius and had it walk crawl out. (More unlikely) 3. Harry has already resurrected Hermione and she left of her own will. (Nigh impossible) Any better theories?
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[]TheAtomicOption 8 points 1 hour ago

The one no one seems willing to consider

Hermione is dead. Harry never discovers a way to revive her, but her death inspires him to finally start trying to use is shortcuts-toomnipotence now to defeat death now instead of continuing to put it off.

permalink []eaturbrainzSunshine Regiment 1 point 18 minutes ago

That's the one I've been holding this whole damn time, but you know LessWrongers and their motivated reasoning, eh?
permalink parent []WriterBen01Sunshine Regiment 3 points 2 hours ago Hermione counts as an object now and can

Harry's pouch. Fawkes' teleportation, called to Harry by the desire to defeat death. Bribed a house elf?

be placed inside of

permalink []Squirrelloid 2 points 1 hour ago

Someone with the knowledge of physics that Harry has should easily see the loophole in Professor McGonagall's explanation of why transmuting a living subject is a bad idea.
permalink []turntekGodheadChaos Legion 1 point 1 hour ago

What, hold the target at absolute zero in an a sealed container (also transfigured out of water)?
permalink parent []sullyj3Chaos Legion 1 point 1 hour ago

Why is the first unlikely?

permalink []kalban777Dragon Army[S] 1 point 42 minutes ago

We're pretty sure he didn't do this when he left under McGonagall's watch because he uses the invisibility cloak shortly afterwards. For him to do this later he would have to penetrate the wards that were placed around the body.
permalink parent []Alterego9 1 point 1 hour ago Smuggled out by Prof. Verres Brain removed or otherwise brain-state

recorded, and rest of the

body destroyed.

[Spoilers to 90] The significant event in 89 is a distraction from... what? (self.HPMOR)

submitted 10 hours ago by almkglor

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Chapter 45: "There is a certain extremely dangerous and destructive spell," Professor Quirrell said, "which I will not name here; a spell of cursed fire. It is what you would use to destroy an ancient device such as the Sorting Hat. It has no effect on Dementors. They are undying." Chapter 77: "I know you have been... investigating... the third-floor corridor -" "You know nothing of the sort." The man's back straightened against the wood. "Do not bluff against me, Severus Snape; I find it annoying, and you are in no position to annoy me. A single glance would tell any competent wizard that the Headmaster has laced that corridor with a ridiculous quantity of wards and webs, triggers and tripsigns. And more: there are Charms laid there of ancient power, magical constructs of which I have heard not even rumors, techniques that must have been disgorged from the hoarded lore of

Flamel himself. Even He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named would have had trouble passing those without notice." Chapter 90: "When a certain ancient device in my possession informed me that Miss Granger was on the verge of death, I cast that spell of cursed fire of which I once spoke. I burned through some walls and floors so that my broomstick could take a more direct path."
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[]75thTrombone 7 points 5 hours ago

It wasn't a distraction. Quirrell knew he had no shot at the third-floor corridor during the troll attack. Its goal actually was to kill Hermione. We saw that this was true in the Quirrell's POV at the end of 89, when he was happy about the outcome, before he heard the prophecy.
permalink []doctrgiggles 3 points 1 hour ago

You present this as fact but I would like to remind everyone that this is not necessarily true, Quirrel's motives are not clear and he can be happy about it without having perpetrated the deed. That said, it was totally him. Really really.
permalink parent []TastyBrainMeatsSunshine Regiment 1 point 1 hour ago

I hope that it wasn't him, mostly because that would just be so...so...villain of him. Stupid and short-sighted. That said, it probably was him. But I hope it wasn't.
permalink parent []ahd1903Sunshine Regiment 2 points 8 hours ago

...good call. I wonder if there were any active defenses on the third floor?
permalink []Cronos000Chaos Legion 1 point 8 hours ago

I didn't think of that before. The idea of the troll attack as a diversion hadn't occurred to me before. Quirrel doing it to get through the 3rd floor is an interesting idea plus the plausibility of the fire means that he could have destroyed or obtained it without too much suspicion. Hermione dying would just be a side perk (from his perspective) in that case.
permalink []flagamuffin 1 point 15 minutes ago

It hasn't? That was what it was in canon.

Explanation for the monster (spoiler 94)

submitted 21 hours ago by Rouninscholar

permalink parent

(self.HPMOR)

On a quick reread I noticed something. ""The Dementor is a distraction," Harry said. The coldness clear in his voice, since that was what Dumbledore wanted and expected. "A large, salient threat, but in the end straightforward, and easy to defend against. So while all your attention is focused on the Dementor, the real plot will be happening elsewhere." Dumbledore stared at Harry for a moment, and then gave a slow nod. "Yes..." said the Headmaster. "And I do believe I know what it might be a distraction from, if Professor Quirrell means ill... thank you, Harry."" Noone holds the idiot ball, quirrel snuck the troll in while dumbledore let the dementor in. And he made the same comment on both days "it has been a good day" Recently word of god said that a good plot is simple and straightforward, and here they are discussing it.
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[]woxy_lutzSunshine Regiment 15 points 20 hours ago

Interesting theory. Worth noting that the first years were the last year group to try their patronuses that day, and Quirrell was absent until their turn.
permalink []Rouninscholar[S] 5 points 20 hours ago

Hadn't gotten to that yet on the reread, good catch!

permalink parent []ParaspriteHuggerSunshine Regiment 8 points 20 hours ago

Good hypothesis, but it begs the question: Where and how do you keep a troll for so long, undetected by the wards?
permalink []moskaudancerChaos Legion 14 points 15 hours ago

Someone in an earlier thread suggested bringing in a troll's head/brain in an enchanted-to-be-unbreakable container, then lifting the enchantment and allowing it to regenerate the rest of its body.
permalink parent []Chunq 7 points 13 hours ago

Either the chamber of secrets or with the defenses around the philosopher's stone (if that part is even slightly similar to canon). It's really nice EY reminded everyone about simple answers. Everyone's flying around with transfiguration on the brain.
permalink parent []Rouninscholar[S] 4 points 20 hours ago

Transmuted as a ring? Or the room of requirement under a stasis maybe, I don't think the wards matter depending on how it is worded. "Monsters may enter for the next 5 minutes" or a ward that only goes off upon entry would make further hiding attempts unnecessary. And the basilisk could be under the same loophole.
permalink parent []Rouninscholar[S] 5 points 21 hours ago

I believe I'm the first to say this, but if someone else did all credit goes to them.
permalink []turntekGodheadChaos Legion 9 points 17 hours ago

What? Why would someone else independently drawing the same conclusion make yours worth no credit just because of the ordering?
permalink parent []Rouninscholar[S] 5 points 14 hours ago

I just consider it "conflict avoidance" I'm not as into the story as a lot of you, I mostly bring these things up to watch people discuss it; and I put it there because at the same time I thought about the "defense professor circle theory". Then saw someone else had posted it when I was looking for a quote.
permalink parent []pringlescan5 1 point 16 hours ago

Only if you're applying for a patent. Maybe? I know they just changed the law from first to file or something.
permalink parent []drogian 2 points 11 hours ago

What if the troll were just transmuted into existence by someone who was already inside Hogwarts instead of being snuck through the wards? It might then be susceptible to finite, but who would use finite on a troll? (And does a finite need to be stronger to counter a stronger transmutation?)
permalink []Rouninscholar[S] 1 point 6 hours ago

Finite is always a brute force counter.

HPMOR may soon be over, but does that mean we won't be getting any sequels? (self.HPMOR)
submitted 11 hours ago by Two-Tone9 comments share

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[]GHDUDE17Dragon Army 4 points 11 hours ago

The story is already like 4 books long, so in a way we've had three sequels.
permalink []HPMOR_fanSunshine Regiment 2 points 10 hours ago

I haven't seen any indication from EY that he will write any more HPMOR. Maybe this is next? Also, you have no idea how hard it is not to write my own take on the Optimalverse, which is something Im not doing so I can put all my available writing energies into Methods. I want relationship credit for this. From http://hpmor.com/notes/progress-13-03-01/
permalink []Two-Tone-[S] 3 points 10 hours ago

Wait, holy shit. Is he taking about an MLP fanfiction?

permalink parent []HPMOR_fanSunshine Regiment 2 points 10 hours ago

It appears so. Did you read the author's note? He mentions one story in particular.
permalink parent []Two-Tone-[S] 2 points 10 hours ago

Indeed I did. Color me pink, am I excited.

permalink parent []stcredzeroSunshine Regiment 2 points 1 hour ago

EY is a brony!?
permalink parent []Two-Tone-[S] 1 point 24 minutes ago

None shall escape the power of Friendship!

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 parent []thecommexokid 2 points 2 hours ago

"I'm never again starting any work of fiction that I've promised to finish." EY in a Facebook comment
permalink []Sparkwitch 1 point 33 minutes ago

It's the Harry Potter curse... same thing happened to J.K. Rowling.

Quick question about chapter 94.

permalink parent

(self.HPMOR) submitted 20 hours ago by BaljarDragon Army

How does Harry know about the Marauder's Map? I don't remember him finding out about it, but he mentions it to Dumbledore in chapter 94. I'm on my phone and can't efficiently go back through previous chapters and check.
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[]HPMOR_fanSunshine Regiment 14 points 19 hours ago

I'm pretty sure Harry's never been told of the map in the text. My guess is that we are to assume this was explained to Harry by Dumbledore (or maybe the twins) off-screen between ch 89-93.
permalink []EliezerYudkowskyGeneral Chaos 36 points 17 hours ago

Check. Offscreen conversation with Dumbledore.

permalink parent []dspeyer 6 points 13 hours ago

Does this mean Dumbledore returned the map and did not obliviate the twins? Or at least claimed these things to Harry?
permalink parent []EliezerYudkowskyGeneral Chaos 7 points 13 hours ago

Yes.
permalink parent []wobblywallabySunshine Regiment 1 point 4 hours ago

Welp, there goes the theory that time-turnered harry learned to obliviate clumsily and stole the map from the twins
permalink parent []ArisKatsarisSunshine Regiment 4 points 18 hours ago

I'm with the people saying "off-screen explanation by Dumbledore"

permalink []troffle 3 points 14 hours ago

Well, seeing as The General is one of those people. ... mind you, doesn't this even at least slightly shoot-in-the-head the arguments by all the people who say "no, it's the mark of a bad writer to introduce something that none of us have seen before, EY would never do that, downvotedownvotedownvote"?
permalink parent []Alterego9 3 points 19 hours ago

Holy shit, you're right. At least the word "map" wasn't used since chapter 88 when the lack of its knowledge was a plot point, and since that, Dumbledore hasn't mentioned anything about the Weasleys beyond that they are the Heir of Gryffindor. That's either a major fuckup from EY, or a major clue that Harry knows more about the situation than what we have seen.
permalink []WriterBen01Sunshine Regiment 2 points 18 hours ago

And in 88 Harry never questions the twins about the map. Which means that if he knew about the map before that, he'd only know it was a magical map without knowing any details. Otherwise he found out between chapter 88 and 94, which is highly suspicious.
permalink parent []HPMOR_fanSunshine Regiment 1 point 10 hours ago

I think what EY has said is that the protagonist should be the one to solve the problems, and he/she should do so using only knowledge available to the readers, but other characters, especially the antagonists, can pull things out of their asses. I'm not sure if that applies here, except that the readers already knew about the map. The statement in Ch 94 was probably EY's way of telling the readers that now Harry knows about the map, without having to actually write the conversation where he learns about it.
permalink parent []lluciuss 2 points 19 hours ago

Excellent question!
permalink []Empiricist_or_notChaos Legion 1 point 17 hours ago

I must be missing a quote where does Harry refer to the Map?

I can see where he would have deduced it in 88 and there are the two likely obligations in 89 and 90, but I don't see Harry reference the Map in dialogue or internal monologue,just discussing the wards. Now the map is voice of narrator part of the wards, but I don't see it used instead of the black box entity of the "wards" Considering the "Order of Chaos" thing I could see Hary having had acess to the map for a long time if that wasn't to Sherlock homes hidden action for EY.
permalink []embrodski 2 points 18 hours ago

I'd imagine Harry can deduce the existence of a magical map the same way Quirrell was able to deduce his possession of a cloak of invisibility.
permalink []kohathSunshine Regiment 5 points 16 hours ago

I would have much preferred this answer actually it's how I read it when I read it, as it seemed like the obvious reading: Harry being clever. But offscreen with Dumbledore as EY has it does make sense as well; one imagines it would be in the conversation where Harry tells Dumbledore that the twins were memory-charmed and had a memory excised of something they could have found Hermione with. The next step would be Harry asking Dumbledore if he knew what it was and/or Dumbledore volunteering the information to the twins to fill in the memory hole.
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