H: So, you know A's are really important at school? No. Well, I just... No.

But you
need to get good grades at school.
D:No, we need to pass school. There's a difference.
H: You won't get a good job if you just pass school.
D: Actually, you can. Some people drop out of school and get pretty good jobs. Some
of them are millionaires.
H:Only the rich, the lucky, or inethical can drop out of school and still get a
good job.
D: Well?
H: Well, nothing. According to the Education Alliance report, you're more likely to
get a job and get more money in the job if you have a degree.
D: Yeah, yeah, yeah, numbers, great. First, upper secondary education isn't
actually that far behind.
H: Well . . .
D: and second, that is get degree.
H: Right, but not everyone can just pass school, and not everyone can just get a
degree.
D: So all I need to do is pass well enough to get to college, then pass well enough
to get a degree.
H: No, not everyone can just pass school. It's not in their genetics.
D: Well...
H: No, you have to work hard.
D: Some people would argue it is. Some people would say they're just born gifted.
H: No, you have to work hard.
D: I don't think anyone would argue that you don't, but working hard means
different things for different people.
H: True, but that isn't in their genetics.
D: But it's not "Not" either.
H: Right.
D: It's both, trained and genetics.
H: But practise is more important than genetics.
D: Probably.
H: Things like memory techniques, or active recall, or space repetition, or
retrieval practise, they matter more than their genetics.
D: Agreed, although those things don't help alone.
H: Well, science says...
D: Yeah, science says a lot of things. Science says it depends a lot, because it
depends on the tests and the measures.
H: What are you on about?
D: Science says removing distractions helps, right?
H: Well, they do.
D: Well, what counts as a distraction? Playing music?
H: Well, it depends.
D: But that's the point, music helps some people, but doesn't help others.
H: It depends on the type of music.
D: Yeah, of course, there'll be averages when you put all of the data together.
H: Ah, but those averages won't represent each person. Makes sense.
D: Exactly.
H: But you still have to remove distractions to focus.
D: Focus on what?
H: Well, practising.
D: But what does that mean? Studying, practise, revision?
H: Science says instruction is effective for learning.
D: If you follow step-by-step instructions of what to do, then you will get
something done. Yes, I agree.
H: No, that's not the point.
D: But if you aren't given instructions, or the problem is different from the
instructions that you've been given, how do you figure out what to do?
H: The instructions are there to help to make things easier at the start.
D: But when is the start?
H: What are you on about? The first lesson.
D: But you already know things before the lesson.
H: Yeah, but not about the topic.
D: OK, let's take maths.
H: Right.
D: You continually develop maths skills, so 1 add 1 equals 2.
H: Well, duh.
D: So you started learning algebra before that first lesson.
H: 1 add 1 is addition, not algebra.
D: But a plus a is algebra, and apple plus apple is algebra. Like I said before, it
depends how you measure things, or in this case, how you label things.
H: So let me get this straight. You're saying we've all started learning quantum
physics because we just exist.
D: Well, I mean, you already know the name of the field.
H: That's just dumb.
D: Effective practise isn't about techniques or labels of things, it's about your
experiences.
H: Well, duh, that is what practise is.
D: No, I mean it's about your relationship between you and the environment you're
in.
H: What are you on?
D: Genetics are a part of you, so must play a role, right?
H: Well, yeah.
D: Training relies on the environment, so again, must play a role, right?
H: Well, yeah.
D: And I don't think you can learn or exist without being in an environment.
H: Obviously. We don't live in a void.
D: So the relationship you have with the environment you are in impacts your
learning.
H: If I don't like the teacher, I'm less likely to learn. Yeah, that's obvious.
D: Yeah, but it's more than that.
H: But I still need to remove distractions, use flashcards and active recall and
techniques like spaced repetition.
D: I wouldn't say need.
H: but that is learning science.
D: That is some learning science.
H: That is how our brains work.
D: Says some scientists.
H: Well, how else can I encode things into my long-term memory?
D: Where is your long-term memory?
H: Shut up. Here.
D: What, right there?
H: No, in my brain.
D: But where in your brain?
H: The mushy bit. I don't know, I'm not a neuroscientist.
D: Well, they don't seem to know either. We can't just pick an idea out of a long-
term memory. It's an idea or a concept.
H: But we all store memories. That's kinda how we forget things.
D: Yeah, it's jargon or words we use, but we have different meanings for.
H: No, we all have memories.
D: Obviously, we all remember things. But when you forget, does that go out of your
long-term memory?
H: Well, yes. I've forgotten it.
D: So how does it go back in when you remember?
H: What do you mean?
D: You experience someone saying 1 add 1 equals 2, and you store it in long-term
memory.
H: Right.
D: But when you're asked at school, you forget the answer.
H: I would just practise more so I don't forget the next time.
D: Yeah, but what if you remember the answer to the question later that day, not
being told the answer, not being given any cues or practise or anything, and you
just remember it? If it's out of your long-term memory store, how did it go back in
without instruction or practise or another experience of that thing?
H: Well, I guess I hadn't forgotten it, but had forgotten it.
D: But that's my point. Instead of thinking of memory as a store, it's in or it's
out, I think of it more as a process of remembering.
H: Practise?
D: Yeah, practise. Remembering experiences.
H: So getting A's. Yeah, yeah. So how do I help remembering to get better grades?
D: Like I said earlier, it depends on the measures of the tests.
H: It depends. Really helpful.
D: OK, let's take a maths test as an example because we used it earlier.
H: OK.
D: If you are tested on problems and you practise problems written in similar ways,
but with variations, it would...
H: Would help. Yeah, that's just doing practise papers.
D: But practise papers are different from flashcards.
H: Well, obviously, unless I make the flashcards from the practise papers.
D: Well, to an extent. Representative practise.
H: Practise the test.
D: Essentially, practise the possibilities in the test.
H: But that's not really any different, is it?
D: But it is. This measure is just highly constrained.
H: Like a school test?
D: Yeah. And the practise environment and time is also highly constrained.
H: All those topics in just a few years.
D: Well, yeah. So the effective practise opportunities are somewhat limited by
those constraints.
H: So it is all about just hard work.
D: Well, planning out your time, where you do your homework, when you do your
homework, attempting all of the problems or most of the problems that are set in
the class or... Yeah.
H: Duh.
D: But why you do those things, I would argue, is more important. Like, what are
your learning intentions? What is the point?
H: The A thing again.
D: Well, if your intention is to get an A, your practise will look different than
if it was to just pass school or college or get a degree.
H: Wait, are you suggesting I skip lessons?
D: Suggesting you make the most of the lessons for your learning intentions.
H: By...
D: By picking a direction to head in.
H: Yeah, but that's going to change.
D: Well, the only constant is change. Time is always moving forward, so you might
as well pick somewhere to go.
H: Fair.
D: We learn from all our experiences.
H: No, I wouldn't say all.
D: I would. Each experience gives us new information. Every experience is unique.
H: But I don't remember everything I've ever done.
D: No, but you can walk.
H: What the... has that got to do with getting A's?
D: Do you remember learning to walk? Do you remember all the times that you fell
over?
H: No.
H: So you learn from those experiences and develop skills which you're still using
today.
H: I mean, I guess.
D: So there can be multiple non-linear, non-obvious causes to behaviour.
H: Well, that was a lot of words, but not really much said.
D: Causes aren't always obvious.
H: Well, yeah.
D: So what you do, experiences at home, at school, in sports clubs and community
clubs, it all teaches new things from unique experiences.
H: Like being street smart?
D: Kinda, yeah, you need to be on the streets to be street smart.
H: Representative practise?
D: Exactly. As if you could read my mind.
H: So what is the right way to pass school?
D: Right way?
H: Wait, wait, I know this one. It depends.
D: Well, yeah, but if we add some measures we can then tackle the problem.
H: I need to get to college, get to uni, then get a job. Wow, my future looks
really boring.
D: Everyone needs money in this world.
H: Facts.
D: Well, let's set some learning intentions and add some constraints.
H: Get A's.
D: And you want A's because...
H: Because I want to get into college.
D: Which college?
H: I don't know.
D: So why A's?
H: To keep all my options open?
D: Is there A's in everything?
H: The main things.
D: Main things being...
H: Math, English, science, biology.
D:Why biology?
H: Because it's interesting.
D: How is biology different from the other sciences?
H: It's a type of science.
D: Is chemistry and physics interesting?
H: No.
D: Maybe there could be a shift in priority.
H: No, I still want A's in chemistry and physics.
D: Do you want to study chemistry and physics at college?
H: No way, but I might need them.
D: Have you looked?
H: No.
D: So you're trying to get A's in subjects even though you might not need them.
H: Well...
D: I'm not telling you what to do. I'm merely helping you reflect on learning
intentions.
H: Oh yeah, I reflect all the time.
D: Reflect or evaluate?
H: Same thing.
D: I know plenty of people that would disagree with that.
H: I'm told I overthink all of the time.
D: Which could be reflection, but might be evaluation.
H: So what's the difference?
D: Saying something was good or bad is just evaluation.
H: So if I get all B's at school and I think that's a bad thing, that's evaluation.
D: Yeah, looking at objectives or outcomes.
H: Now that I'm thinking I'm going to fail in life because I got B's instead of
A's, that's reflection.
D: No.
H: Yes.
D: No, that's predicting a future on an evaluation.
H: Oh yeah, I do that a lot.
D: Yeah, most people do. Most organisms will try and avoid future problems by
guessing the future.
H: So reflecting is kind of like looking at what I could have done to make it
better, like actually studying.
D: Yeah, that is some shallow reflection.
H: Shallow?
D: Well, I would want to ask more critical questions.
H: Like?
D: Like, how much did you study? Why did you or didn't you study? And then
answering those questions honestly and asking more.
H: Well, some subjects just suck. So it's hard to get motivated to practise them.
D: So do you practise those subjects the same way you practise the subjects that
you enjoy?
H: Well, yeah, because I'm good at those subjects. So the practise must be good,
right?
D: Not necessarily. Remember the relationship thing. . .
H: between me and the environment?
D: Well, yeah. So the subject is different. So the relationship is also going to be
different.
H: Ah, so the problem is different.
D: Exactly. So the solutions might be similar, but they also might be very, very
different.
H: Well, following instructions or patterns is pretty easy.
D: Do you find maths easier than English?
H: Yes.
D: And you practise them the same?
H: Yes.
D: Maybe try more representative practise.
H: You mean like instead of doing flashcards for English, I write, I don't know,
essays like in the exams?
D: Yeah, that's one idea.
H: It still doesn't seem as different from the other advice I see on the internet.
D: The behaviours might look the same.
H: They are the same.
D: In some cases. This is where I'd look back to the A thing. What does a
successful learner look like?
H: Someone that gets good grades.
D: Good grades or highly skilled?
H: What?
D: Well, you could pass your driving test with no faults, but be less skilled than
others on the road.
H: But that's just experience.
D: I don't think more experience means more skilled.
H: Nah, that's true.
D: Paying attention to useful information while intending to do something are
useful experiences.
H: Right.
D: So effective practise might not be about memory techniques and active recall and
retrieval practise and space repetition, but about actually doing the thing.
H: Actually doing tests.
D: If that relates to the problems you are trying to solve and the skills you're
trying to develop.
H: I just don't get the point of this. Solving problems is obvious. If there's
problems all around the world, how does this help me get good grades?
D: But that's the point. There are different ways to try and solve problems. A's
might be a solution, but there might be other solutions to the problems, or maybe
the problems you're trying to solve may need adjusting.
H: Yeah, fine, fine. Whatever.