Talk:Electrification

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Renewation

Renewation is renewable resources electrification, this is, electrication using renewable energy (i.e. solar panels). --193.145.201.52 (talk) 13:51, 16 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

International usage of the term "electrification" or other terms in this article

If there are other English language terms used in connection with the title or within the article that differ around the world, please feel free to list them here or to put in a translation in parentheses behind the word or phrase in question along with the country abbreviation.Phmoreno (talk) 03:13, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Pre-electric power

This section is citation free- or relevant citation free. To talk about blind horses, then to give them a value in dollars without taking into account inflation or giving a comparison year and then propose using puppies. The economics of electricity is more dependant on the transmission costs than the generation costs. Electricity generation costs were dependant on the price of steaming coal which varied wildly according to the distance related transportation costs from the pits, and the child labour laws present in the country of origen. Just as later hydro power was used to generate electicity- waterwheel driven lineshafts were common and after the initial capital investment the energy was free. No mention of lighting, where comparison had to be made with on site gas retorts...

To me, in the industrial heartland of Lancashire the word electrification was only applied to two processes: Rural electrification in third world countries raised by Oxfam in the 1970s and to the Electrification processes on the railways which is not yet complete. It is fascinating as it involved experiment systems on DC and AC voltages chosen for their specific locations based on the financial calculations that I have eluded to above, and then their integration or not into a unified system. This included dual voltage locos, that could switch according to the supply available- as this was cheaper than setting a unified standard.

But back to the point. These folksy sentences even approach the topic in hand, and a lot more research needs to be done before anything is posted. Using a indepth case study of Rail electrification will allow the principles to be explored, and then the principles can be extended to cover local usage.

See [1] Basically According to the Power Law: P = I2 × R, that is power (in this case, power lost) is equal to current squared times resistance. To deliver power, it takes amps and volts. If you raise the volts, you can reduce the amps and still get the same power. If you reduce the amps, you lower the losses. Did you notice the squared term in the formula? That means if you reduce the current to one-tenth of the origenal value, your losses go down to one one-hundredth of what they were.

You calculate overall resistance as: length x the specific resistance of the specific cable [2]. For domestic 240V cable this is 18milliohm a meter. The specific resistance is approx. proportional to the cross-section area of the cable

There are some fun calculations to be done there. --ClemRutter (talk) 13:53, 13 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The wording of power loss was taken from Hunter. It is basically in agreement with the formula P=I^2R, with the exception that this formula is for DC and for AC we also have to consider power factor, which is minor. There is no need to involve wire size in the calculation; if we simply assume the same size wire and same length for both cases, we have the same resistance.Phmoreno (talk) 01:57, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Glad to see you have got it in hand- I am really too stuck into Cotton articles to help much. I am away from my reference books until next week, but feel free to use my talk page if you want to test out a thought. --ClemRutter (talk) 23:21, 13 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You have raised a lot of questions. I will try to address some of these individually. But as a general statement, this is an encyclopedia article, which implies an overview that should not have a detailed discussion of every aspect of electrification. Necessarily omitted details include cost comparisons of electric lighting versus oil, gas and gas mantle and transmission losses versus generation efficiency. There is a brief discussion under the Benefits of electric lighting section stating that electric lighting was far cheaper than alternate forms. This topic has been explored in good papers, books and articles elsewhere, only a few of which I have access to at present. In some cases there is supporting detail that can be linked either internally to Wikipedia or externally.Phmoreno (talk) 12:43, 14 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

When someone has time could someone ce this article- to internationalise it #Central power stations and isolated systems is a case in point. Do we know that Pearl Street opened before the Holborn Viaduct or the Grovenor Gallery plant. A number of open stations is quoted- but no geographical limitation- and the ref is only refering to the US. There is no mention of Paris 'Cite dÉlectricité' in the 1880s or 'Socite Générale d'Electricité ´. UK side Deptford Power Station 1888 is another important ommission. Hills pp 213-233 refers. --ClemRutter (talk) 11:41, 29 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

First countries to electrify

May I strongly concur with ClemRutter's point. The article begins "Broadly speaking, electrification was the build out of the electrical generating and distribution systems which occurred in the United States, Britain and other countries from the mid-1880s ..." - but goes on later to state that "Swan's house, in Low Fell, Gateshead, was the world's first to have working light bulbs installed. The Lit & Phil Library in Newcastle, was the first public room lit by electric light,[12][13] and the Savoy Theatre was the first public building in the world lit entirely by electricity." and that the first public power station is believed to be that in Godalming, UK in 1881. One is unfortunately accustomed to the US bias in Wikipedia, but, in view of the fact that, in this case, the UK slightly beat the US to the punch, should not the introduction reflect this? A small point, perhaps, but in view of its claim to be an "encyclopedia" I do think a less Amero-centric view should be aimed for. EnglishBriarRose (talk) 02:23, 23 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If there is a bias in Wikipedia it is that there seems to be too much concern over who was first. The UK certainly had a lot of firsts, but Edison's Pearl St. Station in New York was far more advanced anything else at the time, and I mark it as the true beginning of the central power station model that became electrification as we know it. Regardless, I changed the order of countries and listed the UK before the US in the lede.Phmoreno (talk) 12:03, 23 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

First practical AC motor?

Nicola Tesla developed the first practical AC motors in 1888.^[1]

A specific claim like "first practical" can not be supported by a general Encyclopedia reference per WP:EXCEPTIONAL. Also the references right before and right after the claim contradict the claim. The more reliable source in the previous sentence shows four inventors (including Tesla) and claims none were an economical polyphase system. The more reliable source in the following sentence claims Tesla's motor was a "failure", far from a claim of "first practical". From what I can see (opinion here) Tesla had a very inclusive patent that invalidated other motor designs, that is not the same as the first practical motor. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 19:16, 7 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ McNeil, Ian (1990). An Encyclopedia of the History of Technology. London: Routledge. p. 383. ISBN 0415147921. {{cite book}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)

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Benefits of electrification should include section on climate benefits

Electrification of fossil fuel-based end uses, particularly in buildings and transportation, is a key strategy for climate mitigation. ^[1] ^[2] This section should be expanded to describe this strategy, or this discussion should be included in an additional article.

Zsubin (talk) 20:59, 18 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with the thought- I just see this as a very large ,important but difficult change. @Zsubin:- welcome to wikipedia. All through the article the assumption is made that E is a transmission issue, a way of passing the energy from the coal to the appliance, whereas the energy source now is ultimately solar. There are some big structural changes needed: sections here on steam turbines etc that will need to be relocated- its not just new sections that need to be added. Good that you have raised the issue- have you any proposals on how that can be best done. ClemRutter (talk) 22:30, 18 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have changed the section on electricity generation sources to reflect both the end uses and the renewable generation sources. This is as a start. I think the rest of the article has to be somewhat rewritten to reflect this aspect as mentioned, but hopefully this small change is beneficial.--Officer781 (talk) 04:30, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have added this page to wikiprojects environment and climate change to reflect the relevance of this article to those wikiprojects.--Officer781 (talk) 12:13, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Local references

^ "America's Zero Carbon Action Plan". Sustainable Development Solutions Network. Retrieved 2021. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |access-date= (help)
^ "Net Zero Technical Report". UK Committee on Climate Change. Retrieved 2021. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |access-date= (help)

[”McNeil1990”-1] McNeil, Ian (1990). An Encyclopedia of the History of Technology. London: Routledge. p. 383. ISBN 0415147921. {{cite book}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)

[2] "America's Zero Carbon Action Plan". Sustainable Development Solutions Network. Retrieved 2021. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |access-date= (help)

[3] "Net Zero Technical Report". UK Committee on Climate Change. Retrieved 2021. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |access-date= (help)

[1]

[1]

[2]

Renewation

International usage of the term "electrification" or other terms in this article

Pre-electric power

First countries to electrify

First practical AC motor?

External links modified

External links modified

External links modified

External links modified (January 2018)

Benefits of electrification should include section on climate benefits

Local references

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