User talk:Ichthyovenator/Archive 1

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References

Hello, Ichthyovenator. I have been looking at your edits and have seen that some pages not cited without that reference you used to make the list of eurypterid have other references. What I wonder is where you find them, I would like to know.

Also, I want to congratulate you for the good editions you do. Good work!. Super Ψ Dro 20:55, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

Thanks! I have made a lot of edits, so it would help if you could give me some examples of the pages in question. I normally search for relevant terms on Google Scholar (link) which usually leads to some paper of relevancy, but some specific sources were found in other ways. Ichthyovenator (talk) 21:11, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

I had in mind to make an article to Belinuropsis, which is the only valid gender of the list of eurypterids, and Pachygonosaurus, which happens the same, but in ichthyosaur. But do not worry, I'll try to be the one looking for these references. Maybe the link you gave me serves me ;). Super Ψ Dro 21:35, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

For Belinuropsis there is a short description in the paper I cited in the list (link), good luck with your articles :). Ichthyovenator (talk) 21:43, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, good luck with your articles too! Super Ψ Dro 14:21, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

January 2018

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at Anastasius I Dicorus. Your edits appear to be disruptive and have been reverted.

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Please ensure you are familiar with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and please do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive. Continual disruptive editing may result in loss of editing privileges. Thank you. Dr. K. 09:39, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

I'd hardly consider them disruptive, but sure I'll stay off similar stuff in the future. Ichthyovenator (talk) 11:07, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for your understanding. In general, this Eastern Roman–Byzantine dichotomy is a contentious area, and large-scale changes should be avoided without discussion or consensus. Best regards. Dr. K. 18:11, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

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Medieval Roman Empire.

I think the use of 'medieval roman empire' or at least 'eastern roman empire' should be encouraged and the use of 'byzantine' should become obsolete, we are not in the 19th century anymore. But I fairly agree with you, it's quite good to add the official title, Emperor of the Romans.A r m i n i u s (talk) 10:05, 31 January 2018 (UTC)A r m i n i u s

I would actually like to continue the counting from the previous roman emperors. The first Emperor labelled as Emperor of the Byzantine Empire, Anastasius I Dicorus, would then be labelled as "89th Emperor of the Roman Empire", with the counting continuing on from him.

I have already ensured that all the Eastern Roman Emperors are numbered as roman emperors but specified to be Emperors of the Eastern Roman Empire (just as the Western ones are specified as being Emperors of the Western Roman Empire) until the end of the Western Empire. Zeno (emperor) is the 86th Emperor of the Roman Empire, Basiliscus is the 87th and Romulus Augustulus is the 88th. Since Zeno (at the very least juridically) reunified the Empire into just one imperial court, the use of "Eastern Roman Emperor" and "Eastern Roman Empire" is actually historically inaccurate beyond the year 480, they were simply "Roman Emperors" of the "Roman Empire" at that point.

I do agree that "Byzantine" should become obsolete, but it can not be denied that it is, at the moment, by far the most common way to refer to the Roman Empire during the middle ages.

Since the Byzantine vs Roman naming discussion comes up quite a lot I thought it best to find some form of compromise in how the titles are used in the infoboxes. "Emperor of the Byzantine Empire" was by far the most commonly used one, so I ensured that it was used on all of them for the sake of consistency between the emperors. We can not change it to "Emperor of the Roman Empire" without clear consensus and the consensus is at the moment seemingly opposed to that. I think putting in the formal and official title ("Augustus" for emperors from Anastasius I Dicorus to Phocas, "Emperor of the Romans" for emperors from Heraclius to Staurakios and "Emperor and Autocrat of the Romans" for emperors from Michael I Rangabe to the end of the empire) was a fair enough compromise. Ichthyovenator (talk) 15:23, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

I completely agree with you.

Yes! I know the term 'eastern roman empire' isn't accurate after 480 and only Roman Empire/emperor, it's just that people here do not like to use the original name at all for the medieval empire and I think the term 'eastern roman' although not the best term, it doesn't deny the Roman-ness of the Empire, contrary to that byzantine invention. Lets hope we can change it completely to Roman Empire/Emperors someday. Total support dude.A r m i n i u s (talk) 03:00, 1 February 2018 (UTC)A r m i n i u s

Your GA nomination of Western Roman Empire

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Your GA nomination of Jaekelopterus

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Your GA nomination of Jaekelopterus

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Your GA nomination of Pterygotidae

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Your GA nomination of Pterygotidae

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Great work!

	The Original Barnstar
	Congratulations on the approval of Pterygotidae! There are already 3 good articles about eurypterids! Super Ψ Dro 14:51, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

Many thanks! Ichthyovenator (talk) 15:22, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

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Your GA nomination of Ciurcopterus

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Your GA nomination of Acutiramus

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References

Hi again, Ichthyovenator. I have noticed that Salteropterus contains a lot of information that does not appear in the abstract of those journals. Do you have the full text? How? I would need it to expand Herefordopterus. Thanks in advance. Super Ψ Dro 16:42, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

Yes, much of the information was based on the full text of some of the journals. I have access to JSTOR, which has quite a few papers (such as this one, which might be relevant for you), for free through my school. Not sure how you would go about getting access, but I know that there is some sort of collaboration between JSTOR and Wikipedia that might help (link), depending on if you are at some kind of institution, some institutions have JSTOR access (link). Ichthyovenator (talk) 20:26, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. I already requested access to JSTOR. Super Ψ Dro 22:46, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Slimonia

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Your GA nomination of Slimonia

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Your GA nomination of Salteropterus

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Your GA nomination of Salteropterus

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Fossilized Barnstar

	The Fossilized Barnstar
	For your explosion of expanded eurypterid articles in so little time! They will probably be the best (only?) sources of information about these animals for regular readers anywhere. FunkMonk (talk) 23:54, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

Thank you! Very much appreciated :) I will do my best to keep it up!

Your GA nomination of Mauro-Roman Kingdom

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Your GA nomination of Pterygotus

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Eurypterid restorations

Hi once more, Ichthyovenator. I plan on doing several restorations of the body parts of some eurypterids, but I do not know how. I would like to ask you how you do it and what tools you use. Thanks in advance. Super Ψ Dro 21:58, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi, sorry for the late response. When I restore eurypterids I look for images of the most well preserved specimens available and make a pencil drawing based on that (and often based on other restorations to get a feel as to how they would have looked). I then take a photo of the drawing and edit it on my computer, doing stuff like increasing the contrast and editing how it looks to make the end result a quite clean line drawing. Ichthyovenator (talk) 14:52, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

And what do you use to edit the images? That is what is most difficult for me. Super Ψ Dro 15:30, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

MS Paint and Gimp (link), any decent image editing app could really replace Gimp here, Pixlr is easily accessible online for instance (link). Ichthyovenator (talk) 20:59, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

I was looking for anything to do a test restoration and I made the holotype of Dolichopterus gotlandicus (link). How about? Feel free to modify whatever, especially those points that look so ugly. Super Ψ Dro 18:17, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

I think it looks pretty good. Do you have a link to the source/reference used so that I can compare them to the final result? Ichthyovenator (talk) 07:20, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

Yes, this one, page 128. Super Ψ Dro 08:59, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

Looks good to me. Ichthyovenator (talk) 10:34, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

• Since I'm myself spread a bit thin on Wikipedia at present, and since you both have eurypterid articles up, I was wondering if you should maybe try to review one of each other's current nominations? After all, you two are probably the most knowledgeable on the group, and it will also help practice your reviewer skills. FunkMonk (talk) 15:01, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

Good idea, I could get a review started on Parahughmilleria. @Super Dromaeosaurus: are there other eurypterid GA nominations by you that I've missed? My only nominated one at the moment is Adelophthalmus.

And Pterygotus! FunkMonk (talk) 10:46, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

Ha! Yeah that one too, forgot :) Ichthyovenator (talk) 18:05, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

Honestly, I do not see myself yet able to do a review. Maybe in the future, make one, and short. I have noticed some articles like this this one could help me to start. At the moment there is no other article that I have nominated. And speaking of GA, I think it would not be bad to also nominate Slimonidae to become the first good topic of eurypterids, I see it as complete enough, only lacking paleoecology. Super Ψ Dro 20:33, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

I would gladly help oversee such a review, it really isn't that hard. Just keep in mind what you have been told in reviews of your nominations, skim the GA criteria, and then I'll point you in the right direction if something is missing. FunkMonk (talk) 20:55, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

On the topic of a good topic I think Slimonidae is a little too small of a topic (3 articles, not that good topics have to be large). If we were to attempt a good topic I think Pterygotioidea superfamily would be a good one to do. It includes the famous pterygotids (all except Necrogammarus are GA or GA-nominated), the hughmillerids (Herefordopterus needing work here) and the slimonids (both GA). The articles that would be in need of expansion are not that many. Ichthyovenator (talk) 19:09, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

As far as I know, the number of articles does not matter, even if they are only three. Probably Pterygotioidea can never become a good topic because of Necrogammarus, only a redescription could give enough information for GA, and it does not seem like that will happen soon. I am working on Herefordopterus and will soon be moving to Hughmilleriidae, so there is no problem with that. Super Ψ Dro 20:28, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

Note that Raphinae became a featured topic, even though it only contains two genera, so should be possible. FunkMonk (talk) 20:32, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

Necrogammarus does make Pterygotioidea as a Good topic problematic, yes. I have been meaning to edit the Slimonidae article itself for a while so we can see what to do after that. I do not believe a GA necessarily has to be very long (correct me if I'm wrong), just comprehensive and featuring everything we know about the subject at hand. Necrogammarus is almost certainly synonymous with either Erettopterus or Pterygotus but I think it is possible to expand its article a little bit more at least. Ichthyovenator (talk) 20:54, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

Well... things like Schinderhannes bartelsi are very short and they are GA, so it does not need to be large. In fact, Necrogammarus almost has the same number of bytes as Schinderhannes bartelsi. But everything has a limit, and a minimum is needed to be a GA. Wyomingopteryx is a nomen nudum and this is practically everything known about it. But a GA of it will never happen. I am exaggerating in this case, but I do not think that an article with the current information that Necrogammarus has can pass. It would probably take at least a brief description and some sentences about paleoecology. The latter is easy, as we have been doing in some articles, you can add its fossil site and faunas found in the same place. I did not think Hughmilleria would pass with such a short paleoecology, but it did it, so it is possible. A GA of Necrogammarus would be quite an achievement that would open the possibility that Waeringopteridae would also be GA, so it is worth trying. Super Ψ Dro 22:14, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

It also comes down to the reviewers, and some reviewers simply don't know anything about the subjects they review. For example, I would not have passed Schinderhannes without some significant expansion, I really don't believe it is as comprehensive it can be in regard to the literature. A standalone section called "significance" is also highly unorthodox, and would probably not be accepted in articles in general, regardless of topic. FunkMonk (talk) 22:19, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Adelophthalmus

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Your GA nomination of Slimonidae

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Your GA nomination of Slimonidae

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Your GA nomination of Adelophthalmus

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Your GA nomination of Pterygotus

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Fossilized Barnstar #2

	The Fossilized Barnstar
	I might be more of a dinosaur guy but I must say your work on pterygotid articles is very impressive. If you continue to work on Necrogammarus and end up nominating it for GA as well, Pterygotidae could become a good topic! So I give you this fossilized barnstar, and bid you good luck on your editing! ▼PσlєοGєєкƧɊƲΔƦΣƉ▼ 19:38, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

Many thanks! Necrogammarus is going to be difficult to do anything major with as it is basically undiagnostic (for a dinosaur comparison, think something like Deinodon but with less history and material behind it) but I will see what can be done with it :) Ichthyovenator (talk) 20:40, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

Raising discussion at GAN

Hey Ichthyovenator,

Do you think it would be worthwhile to open a discussion on John at the GAN discussion page? It seems his style of asking for unspecified changes and closing when they weren't met was also found at Talk:Jared Kushner/GA1, and probably other places. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 19:58, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

I did find the review very odd and completely unlike ones I have been through before, especially the quick close of the review. Not sure if it anything would come from it but I think it could be worthwile to open a discussion, yes. Ichthyovenator (talk) 20:21, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Necrogammarus

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Your GA nomination of Eusarcana

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Your GA nomination of Carcinosoma

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Your GA nomination of Mauro-Roman Kingdom

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Hello, I would like to congratulate and thank you for your work concerning the very little recognized Berber-Roman kingdoms of the post and pre-vandal periods, and to revive this very vague period, I appreciate your work. I am a from France, of Berber origin, my maternal family is from the province of Tiaret, with members of our family in the whole sector, in Tiaret (the main city of the region), Frenda, etc, in the area where these kingdoms have emerged!), and my father from Bejaia, so these contributions affect me a lot, because it's part of the story of my ancestors. Hope you will appreciate this message. Sorry for my very bad english, my native language is French. Also, one more edit, i wanted to inform you that I am currently translating your excellent article on the kingdom of Moors and Romans ( https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilisateur:L%27Homme_Presse/Brouillon ). An ode of compliments for a contributor doing an excellent job in anonymity, and with a lot of humility. Goodbye. L'Homme Presse (talk) 19:58, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for the kind words! It was odd to me that a line of kings claiming such a grand title as the "Kings of the Moors and Romans" had been overlooked so I did my best to write about them and their kingdom as comprehensively as I could. It was very interesting to learn more about the Mauro-Roman Kingdom and the other Berber kingdoms that emerged in North Africa after the collapse of Rome when researching for the article, hopefully it does a good job at representing the history of the region. Ichthyovenator (talk) 20:41, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Eurypterid

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For the sweat of your brow

		The Good Article Barnstar
		It gives me great pleasure to award you this hard earned barnstar for your amazing work on Western Roman Empire and for bringing it up to Good Article status. A lot of work and a lot of perseverance. You are a fine example of Wikipedia at its best. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:51, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for the kind words! Feels like forever since I began working on that article, here's to many more articles to come :) Ichthyovenator (talk) 14:19, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

Eurypterid

Hello:

The copy edit you requested from the Guild of Copy Editors of the article Eurypterid has been completed.

Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

Best of luck with the FA review.

Regards,

Twofingered Typist (talk) 17:30, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

Many thanks for taking the time to go through the article! Ichthyovenator (talk) 12:03, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

The Eurypterid Award

		The Eurypterid Award
		For your impressive rap sheet with eurypterids, including a good topic with 14 articles which you managed to do in just the last year, an award I just made up right now. Keep paddling on   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  04:29, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

Many thanks and nice award! I'll keep paddling on for sure! :) Ichthyovenator (talk) 07:55, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

A cupcake for you!

For your new Assyrian article. THE NEW ImmortalWizard(chat) 22:45, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Hah! Thank you! Ichthyovenator (talk) 22:54, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for adding ottoman empire Harry Potter LXXIII (talk) 04:50, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

Byzantium

I only edited the article on Byzantine Empire because it has a labe caling for shortening and restructuring. I did some mistakes but I would like to help satisfy the label's instructions. COuld I ind help from someone on that effort?--Soccererer (talk) 22:22, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

First of all, I apologize if I in any way discouraged you from editing with my reverts of your contributions to the article. The major thing to consider with the Byzantine Empire article is that not only is it a featured article but it also has an average of almost 6,000 viewers each day (source). It's a quite important article and I do believe major restructurings and rephrasings should be discussed on the talk page of the article before being implemented. You did shorten it, yes, but there was also a lot of information lost (and I'm not sure how the lost information was less important than the kept information) and the exposition became a bit muddled in my opinion. Ichthyovenator (talk) 11:16, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for adding ottoman empire in Rome William MMXCVIII (talk) 05:01, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of King of the Universe

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Your GA nomination of King of the Universe

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GA nomination

I think from here I should just scratch the review and delete it all. Then you can get someone else and their may be no confusionBMO4744 (talk) 22:25, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

@BMO4744: As long as that is okay with you, sure. Ichthyovenator (talk) 22:27, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

For safe keeping Talk:King of the Universe/GA1. BMO4744 (talk) 12:00, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of King of the Universe

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A page you started (Kingdom of the Aures) has been reviewed!

Thanks for creating Kingdom of the Aures.

I have just reviewed the page, as a part of our page curation process and note that:

An interesting article. I have nominated it for DYK.

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Your GA nomination of King of the Four Corners

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A page you started (King of the Lands) has been reviewed!

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Most of the content in the lead should be moved to new sections in the body of the article.

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_signed, Rosguill ^talk 02:38, 21 April 2019 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	For your well-written Mesopotamian-related articles. Keep it up! HistoryofIran (talk) 01:19, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Thanks you! Hoping to get fully back into it in the coming months :)

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DYK nomination of Kingdom of the Aures

Hello! Your submission of Kingdom of the Aures at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! MX (✉ • ✎) 15:56, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

DYK for Kingdom of the Aurès

On 28 May 2019, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Kingdom of the Aurès, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that despite previously being at war with the Kingdom of the Aurès, the Byzantine Empire supported them during the Muslim conquest of the Maghreb? You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Kingdom of the Aurès), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

 — Amakuru (talk) 00:02, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

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Your GA nomination of Akkadian royal titulary

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Jaekelopterus scheduled for TFA

This is to let you know that the Jaekelopterus article has been scheduled as today's featured article for October 26, 2019. Please check the article needs no amendments. If you're interested in editing the main page text, you're welcome to do so at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/October 26, 2019, but note that a coordinator will trim the lead to around 1000 characters anyway, so you aren't obliged to do so.

For Featured Articles promoted on or after October 1, 2018, there will be an existing blurb linked from the FAC talk page, which is likely to be transferred to the TFA page by a coordinator at some point.

We suggest that you watchlist Wikipedia:Main Page/Errors up to the day of this TFA. Thanks! Jimfbleak - talk to me? 08:02, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

Exciting stuff! I'll be eagerly checking through everything up until October 26th! Ichthyovenator (talk) 08:55, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

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A couple of weeks ago, we invited you to take the Community Insights Survey. It is the Wikimedia Foundation’s annual survey of our global communities. We want to learn how well we support your work on wiki. We are 10% towards our goal for participation. If you have not already taken the survey, you can help us reach our goal! Your voice matters to us.

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I have sent you a note about a page you started

Thanks for creating Mesopotamian royal titles.

User:Originalmess while examining this page as a part of our page curation process had the following comments:

Just wondering - what about Sumerian royal titles?

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originalmess^{how u doin that busta rhyme?} 06:08, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

@Originalmess: Since writing appeared in Mesopotamia ~3500 BC and the "Akkadian period" (as in civilizations using the Akkadian language etc.) begins in ~2300 BC and then more or less lasts throughout the rest of Ancient Mesopotamian history, most Mesopotamian royal titles we have written down will be in the Akkadian language and inspired by those created during the Akkadian and Neo-Sumerian empires. There just aren't as many Sumerian titles preserved as there are Akkadian ones and anything in Sumerian beyond the start of the Akkadian period is usually just translations of the Akkadian titles.

There are of course some earlier examples and some later sources giving title for historical kings and such but it is also worth noting that earlier Sumerian titles weren't as elaborate as those of the Akkadians, ususally just combining one of the titles for "king" (lugal, ensi, en etc.) with the city that they ruled. I figured that since Akkadian titles cover most of what we consider to be Ancient Mesopotamian history and are both more common and more elaborate than previous Sumerian ones, "Mesopotamian royal titles" would be fine as a redirect to "Akkadian royal titulature", though that might change if someone puts together a "Sumerian royal titulary" article at some point. Ichthyovenator (talk) 11:03, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

Good to know, thanks so much! I'll leave a note on the redirect page too. originalmess^{how u doin that busta rhyme?} 22:37, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

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Thank you

Just want to once again express my thanks for articles like Ferdinand Palaiologos and Theodore Palaiologos (16th century). They are interesting little gems and a perfect example of the type of content that you really have trouble finding outside Wikipedia because it is scattered here and there and often inaccessible. Well done. Do you intend to work on other Palaiologoi? Constantine ✍ 21:47, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

The pleasure's all mine! I read about Ferdinand and Theodore some time ago and while there is uncertainty in regards to their claims, there is a real possibility that they were Manuel II's actual descendants. Learning of the somewhat shady Theodore and how Ferdinand avoided fighting in the English Civil War and ended up retiring on Barbados you sort of want their claims of imperial descent to be true. It's just such an unexpected fate for the final imperial dynasty. My main focus this time around were on these two and I think, sadly, that sources are too scarce to write decent articles on their close relatives (such as Theodore's other sons who died in the war, his grandfather Prosperos and Ferdinand's son and grandchildren).

I do enjoy reading up on the Palaiologoi though so I might end up tackling some obscurer medieval figures in the family, or some of those with certain imperial descent (Thomas/Andreas), if I uncover something interesting. Ichthyovenator (talk) 22:12, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

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Palaiologos

Hi, Ichthyovenator. I know this seems somewhat meddlesome on my part but I see that lately your contributions have focused on the Palaiologos family. I'm not really a fan of Byzantine history but I find it certainly interesting. That's why I was wondering if you have heard of the Romanian Paleologu family. From what I've heard, they come from the island of Lesbos and settled in Wallachia at some point in history. Their connection with the Palaiologoi is not entirely safe but I think it's something very interesting and maybe you know something about them and their doubtful connection, it would be pretty cool if they actually descended from them. I also want to congratulate you on the articles you have been expanding, they are very interesting! Good job! Super Ψ Dro 10:06, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for the kind words! I learnt of Ferdinand Palaiologos randomly just a few days ago and through him of his father Theodore and their stories seemed so strange to me that you almost want their claims of also being the heirs of the emperors to be true. I think their genealogy shows pretty well that even in cases where they are relatively near in time (Theodore's birth in around 1560 is just a little over a century after Constantinople's fall) having the last name "Palaiologos" isn't a guarantee for being a relative of the emperors; even though Theodore's lineage really only has one uncertain link ("John", supposed son of Thomas), a lot of historians disregard him and his descendants today.

I had not heard of the Romanian Paleologu family! Even in medieval times, the Palaiologos family was large and the imperial line (descendants of Emperor Michael VIII Palaiologos) was just one of many branches descended from the family's 11th-century founder, the general Nikephoros Palaiologos. There are a fair amount of people in modern Greece and Italy with some version of "Palaiologos" as their last name and it is possible that a fair number of them are "true" Palaiologoi as in descendants of old Nikephoros but not necessarily descendants of the emperors. This might apply to the Romanian Paleologu as well (or it's possible that they just made it up, though the connection with Lesbos in Greece certainly helps) but it is certainly interesting and I will definitely look into it and see what I can find! Ichthyovenator (talk) 22:35, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

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