Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Audra Mari (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) -- Dane2007 ^talk 02:35, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Audra Mari

AfDs for this article:

• Articles for deletion/Audra Mari
• Articles for deletion/Audra Mari (2nd nomination)
• Articles for deletion/Audra Mari (3rd nomination)

Audra Mari (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Mari was Miss World America, but there is no indication that this is a competition of the level to make the winner notable. This article was previously made a redirect, but that was back before she won the most recent title. The sources are a combination of not being reliable, being extremely local and being passing references, in some cases all three at once. John Pack Lambert (talk) 06:35, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

• Keep as won a national competition not just a state one, coverage such as Philstar and Vanity Fair seems to be reliable sources and therefore passes WP:GNG Atlantic306 (talk) 16:55, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of North Dakota-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 14:59, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fashion-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 14:59, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

• Speedy Strong keep and yet another bad faith nom. Audra is a former Miss Teen USA and Miss USA contestant, won the national Miss World America title and will represent the US at Miss World. If the article needs work so be it but there is no question as to notability. PageantUpdater (talk) 15:20, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
• Keep: passes GNG. Also agree with PageantUpdater that these mass nominations, which seem to not consider GNG at all, are very problematic. pbp 19:53, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
• The principal of "assume good faith" has clearly been violated by calling this a "bad faith nomination." It is a good faith nomination built around general Wikipedia principals such as competitors in yourh competitions such as in sports are not as notable as competitors as adults. I see no reason this same principal should not apply to beauty pageants. There is clearly no ground to speedy keep this article because there is no special notability guideline to save it. Beyond this the claim that all national winners arw notable does not work with so many beauty pageants out there. It is also the type of claim without evidene that got us the beauty pageant winner mess to start with.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:04, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
  • Please tell me how youth competitions vs adult competitions is relevant here when she is known for benign first runner-up to one of the two most notable adult competitions in the US and will be representing the US at one of the two most notable adult international pageants? Again, you're being disingenuous. PageantUpdater (talk) 07:56, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
  • @Johnpacklambert: For saying this is built around "general Wikipedia principals" (principles?), it sure doesn't pay a lot of attention to GNG. There doesn't need to be a specific notability guideline saying this is notable, because there's enough source material in this article to pass GNG (even if you ignore the pageant fansites), and there are even more sources available that aren't in the article. As noted on your talk page (where another editor takes issue with this AfD spree), you've nominated ~30 articles for deletion in the past week. For comparison, some people consider me a deletionist, and I've nominated ~30 articles since January 2015. Each of them contains a similar nomination affirming your blanket belief that low-level beauty pageant winners are non-notable. Many of them suggest a lack of examining the sources already in the article, and certainly any checks for additional sources. Having so many shoddy AfDs is what's caused PageantUpdater and I (and probably others) to lose the ability to assume good faith with you. pbp 12:19, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
    • Exactly @Purplebackpack89:. When there are nominations describing Miss America contestants as Miss USA contestants, describing a contestant as coming from Georgia when they were from another state entirely, and nominations for clearly notable people on the basis of something else entirely it is hard to stay patient and assume good faith. I don't enjoy accusing people of acting in bad faith but there's something clearly not right here. Maybe it's just a case of too many nominations too quickly but surely the so called reasonable person could figure out this was too much at once? There are ~70 nominated by him currently open and many more recently closed. Perhaps slowing down & paying more attention would be helpful. PageantUpdater (talk) 15:14, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
• Comment article has been given a copy edit with improved referencing. PageantUpdater (talk) 03:11, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Lourdes 15:11, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

• Delete The assumed notability here is hiding behind crap sources. Vanity Fair, Yahoo, 'Seventeen', TV zines and local press is all they amount to: Nothing to suggest WP:PERSISTENCE. _Muffled ^Pocketed 17:08, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 17:27, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Beauty pageants-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 17:27, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Note

• Delete -- still a WP:PSEUDO biography based on WP:BIO1E. The coverage is rather trivial and insufficient to write a balanced biography. K.e.coffman (talk) 19:32, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
  • Comment how is (a) Winning Miss ND Teen USA (b) Plus a year's reign, (c) Competing & placing 1RU at Miss Teen USA, (d) Winning Miss ND USA (e) Plus a year's reign (f) Competing and placing 1RU at Miss USA (g) Competing & Winning Miss World America (h) Competing in one of the two most important international beauty pageants ... "one event". --- PageantUpdater (talk) 19:44, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
    • @K.e.coffman: I'm with PageantUpdater on this. You can't trot out WP:BIO1E for somebody who's notable for three events. Also, @Lourdes: why was this article relisted on Saturday, even though only the nominator had voted keep, and disruptively so? pbp 13:29, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
      • [1] Lourdes 13:53, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

• Even with multiple events, I'm not convinced that they in combination rise to the level of encyclopedia notability (if you only have zeros to add up, you still end up with zero). Wikipedia requires a balanced biography, which is reasonably comprehensive. What's in the article is a WP:WEBHOST content of Ms Mari's pageant wins. Like Muffled, I'm not seeing WP:PERSISTENCE and I thus advocate deletion. K.e.coffman (talk) 00:15, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

• Keep: She has been in the court of 5 different competitions and has won four. The fact that K.e.coffman cited WP:BIO1E in ignorance of this fact should negate his ivote due to his inability to read. More likely, as many who have been nominating and voting on articles about this subject, it is prejudice against the subject and uninformed, drive-by reflex in the voting. I also added a source for modeling, a CBS affiliate. Vanity Faire and Seventeen are major distribution magazines and exactly the type of sources you would expect for this kind of subject. While she is on the dean's list at North Dakota State, it is a bit much to expect to see her mentioned in the Harvard Review or NEJM. I added the New York Daily News. Plenty more where that came from so this clearly meets WP:GNG. Trackinfo (talk) 04:11, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
• Strong Keep: Easily notable for several events, has notable sources, will compete in the largest pageant in the world. Don't know why this'd even be nominated. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 04:19, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
• Comment, re above "general Wikipedia principals such as competitors in yourh competitions such as in sports are not as notable as competitors as adults.", i do not see this articulated at Wikipedia:Notability (people), Wikipedia:Notability (sports) or Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Common outcomes, indeed WP:SPORTCRIT is almost word for word WP:GNG, which also does not preclude "youth competitions", if indeed this is the case why don't notability guidelines/policies even have footnotes to that affect? Coolabahapple (talk) 18:51, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.