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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/History of the Jews in Cambodia

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎. Most here agree that there is very little to write about this topic, but that the sources are solid. As asilvering suggests, editors are encouraged to find a suitable merge target, where the subject can be covered as part of a broader topic. Owen× ☎ 22:09, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

History of the Jews in Cambodia

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History of the Jews in Cambodia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Extremely small minority with little coverage, the article is largely about individual people in Cambodia who are Jewish with little suggestion of an actual community. If this is notable you could make thousands of articles about every ethnic group in every country. Gazingo (talk) 15:25, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Can we get some more discussion on the proposed merge as an ATD?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, asilvering (talk) 19:09, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep for better or worse, this IS the history of the Jews in Cambodia. The article has WP:RS and it is WP:V as well as WP:N. Smallness of size is not a "sin" when it comes to the Jewish People as they are a small sized nationality out of the world's billions of people. IZAK (talk) 22:29, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: I have posted the following on the nominator's talk page: Hi, and welcome to WP. I have spent over twenty years gathering material to build up a comprehensive history of the Jews in all of the world's countries, see Category:Jewish history by country. Some countries are large and some are small. Some Jewish communities are likewise small or large or old and new, but still they are part of the Jewish history of those countries and of Jewish history and the Jews in general. See my response to your nomination at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/History of the Jews in Cambodia: Your premise about the history of the Jews in any country, i.e. Jewish history, is wrong because Jews are ALWAYS a tiny minority compared to surrounding populations. For example, in the world today there are about seven billion people while there are only about 15 million Jews on planet Earth. Yet Jews are to be found everywhere and they always make WP:N contributions to their host nations regardless if they arrived there fifty years ago or five hundred years ago and regardless if they amount to 500 people or 500,000 people. Please note WP:DONOTDEMOLISH! Therefore, kindly withdraw your nomination because it interferes with the goal of building a comprehensive history of the Jews in all countries and nations on WP, no matter how large or small those Jewish communities are they are all part of the Jewish People who are a tiny, yet very much WP:N nationality and religious group in the world both historically and in the present! Thank you for your understanding! IZAK (talk) 23:10, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Religion in Cambodia#Judaism is a potential merge target if consensus is against retaining this article as is. Left guide (talk) 08:05, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. The only issues are (1) whether there is significant coverage of the topic, and (2) whether a subject is either too big or too small for its own article. Clearly, there are at least three reliable sources with some essential information about the topic, so that is settled. The periodical articles about the Princess’s Bat Mitzvah, philanthropy, and diplomacy are all good references about the subject. At AfD, regardless of how many (quantitative), we lean on how good (qualitative) the data is. Sometimes we look deeper to see if there is zero connection between the data to see whether there was artificial synthesis. This matter is often subjective, and in my mind there’s not synthetic organization; there is a logical correlation between the individual parts of the article and the whole. That can be a difficult task. Secondly, we have struggled with subjects that are too small or big for our encyclopedia. On one hand, we are not a good place for news and other small incidents. On the other hand, we can’t deal with run of the mill items or lists that might include everything. What I’m saying is this: we have never decided on a defined, objective quantum of the smallest possible number of items or data that are needed for an stub to exist. Jews have been a discrete and insular minority in every country from 70 CE until 1948. What is our quantum or velleity? Do we need a minimum of 137 Irish in Uruguay? If we had an objective number for articles of this sort, History of Jews in X, perhaps a minyan? Bearian (talk)
  • Delete. I would support this article if it had significant content, but it doesn't. Just look at it: a Chabad house (like almost every country), mention of two people not notable enough for their own articles (only one of them Cambodian), export of hair (nothing to do with Jews in Cambodia), and an American charity also not notable enough for their own article. Plus three sentences repeating stuff from Cambodia–Israel relations. There is nothing whatever about a community of Jews in Cambodia and only one(!!) Cambodian Jew is even mentioned. This is nowhere near enough for an article. It's a light-year from meeting GNG. Zerotalk 09:59, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Zero0000 are you arguing that this is synthesis? Bearian (talk) 11:03, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Zero0000: @Gazingo: @DesiMoore: I have to strongly disagree with all of you for the following reasons. (a) No one has ever said on WP that there has to be a "community" of Jews in a country for that country to have an article about the "History of the Jews in ____", because just having *Jews*, any number or any kind of Jews in a country qualifies for an article like the History of the Jews in Cambodia. (b) As long as there are reasonable WP:RS and it's WP:V to support an article it is enough to have a short article about a subject such as this. (c) This article is far better than a WP:STUB, and had it been a stub it would be a justified beginning to a good and interesting WP article. (d) This article is certainly WP:N because just as there is a short article about Jews in Cambodia on the Jewish Virtual Library there is no reason for WP now to cut off its nose to spite its face because it may lack a long history or a huge community. And by the way, the Jewish Virtual Library article clearly states that "the small Jewish community there consists of ex-patriots, NGO workers, travelers, hikers, and adventurers." (e) By your dismissive tone and words you are clearly displaying an attitude of WP:IDONTLIKEIT which as you know is NOT a reason to delete longstanding WP articles. (f) Jewish history also contains Modern Jewish historiography --> "which is the development of the Jewish historical narrative into the modern era" including into far-flung countries such as Cambodia that formerly had no known contact with Jews but in modern times has seen a significant influx of all kinds of Jews into it as this article clearly proves. IZAK (talk) 18:51, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      IZAK, you are quite right that I don't like it. I don't like any articles on invented topics with negligible content. I wouldn't even have brought this article to AfD if I'd seen it; I would have PRODed it for speedy deletion as an obvious notability failure. The fact is, only one of the sources (the Chabad one) supports this being a notable subject. Zerotalk 11:40, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      @Zero0000: In fact the article was originally prodded [1] but an alert and smart editor deprodded [2] it seeing that it could lead to controversy. Let me try to see if I can improve the article. IZAK (talk) 20:43, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Although the sources seem very good, there's little to suggest that this subject is enough for a standalone article. Per Zero, the content borders on incoherence and it's not of much use to potential users. DesiMoore (talk) 16:09, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • @DesiMoore: You make no sense! You do agree that this article has WP:RS and is therefore WP:V, and thus also qualifies for WP:N, then you allege that "it's not of much use to potential users" -- how do you know that? Are you privy to the amount of readers all over the world who rely on Wikipedia to learn about Jewish history in all the world's countries? Rather than poo-pooing this article you should be encouraging WP editors to be WP:BEBOLD and add new material even about subjects that may not interest you but are of value to lots of others out there on the world wide web! IZAK (talk) 23:34, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep There are credible reliable and verifiable sources already in the article that describe the topic and demonstrates that the notability standard is met. The significance of Jews and Jewish conversion in a country like Cambodia is notable, along with other topics adequately supported in the article. Alansohn (talk) 17:17, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Are there Jews there? Are there any reliable sources for their history? No reason to delete. Eladkarmel (talk) 19:33, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • NOTE: I have upgraded the article by adding two new sections: Jews and Judaism in Cambodia and Comparison of the Jewish and Cambodian Holocausts. Thanks, IZAK (talk) 22:30, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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