Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Littleton Coin Company

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. —Tom Morris (talk) 08:40, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Littleton Coin Company

Littleton Coin Company (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • Stats)

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Delete. Non-notable company. WP is not the Yellow Pages. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 06:01, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

• Keep - This is a major mailorder firm going back for decades. An important entity in American numismatic history. Coin World and Numismatic News will have significant coverage in their archives, for sure. Carrite (talk) 20:09, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

I don't think Coin World's files are digitized. Littleton dates back to 1945 and was a pioneer of coins-on-approval-by-mail marketing, very much akin to H.E. Harris & Co. for stamps (see: Henry Ellis Harris). They cater to neophytes and have a very large market presence through mass advertising. A parallel can certainly be drawn to Haldeman-Julius Publications and their mass marketing of Little Blue Books in the 1920s and 1930s... There is absolutely no question in my mind that this company is the subject of multiple instances of substantial, independent, published coverage although I've got no links at the moment. Carrite (talk) 20:22, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Coin World and Numismatic News are hardly reliable sources. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 03:13, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:05, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

The weekly numismatic press very much is a reliable source. CW for years had a circulation of 100,000 and NN has been around since the 1950s. They are major, long running, specialist publications with high quality standards and professional journalists on staff — not "pay to play" publications. Carrite (talk) 19:34, 13 April 2012 (UTC) Last edit: Carrite (talk) 19:51, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

• Comment - I've reached out to Littleton for help locating sources and here is a first batch of material which a person there suggests:

• • Franklin, Amy, "Old West Coins Emerge from Vault," Wisconsin State Journal, April 24, 1999, p. 8B.
  • "Man Finds $20 Heirloom Worth $250,000," Florida Times Union, November 27, 2000, p. A4.
  • O'Traynor, Michael, A Decent Boldness: The Life Achievement of Maynard Sundman at Littleton Stamp & Coin Company, Littleton, New Hampshire: Littleton Coin Press, 1995, 330 p.
  • Rare Coins Roar Back into Circulation," Daily News (Los Angeles, New York), July 24, 1997, p. N2.
  • Stecklow, Steve, "Firm Reflects Small-Town Virtues," Philadelphia Inquirer, July 21, 1992, p. A01.
  • Tirrell-Wysocki, David, "Littleton Firm Hits Jackpot with Old Coin Cache," Associated Press, November 16, 1998.
  • McCormack, Kathy, “Littleton Coin Company Claims ‘Ike’ Coins in Montana Vault From Denver U.S. Mint,” Associated Press, December 5, 2011.

I believe she will be in touch with more material on Monday. The book on Sundman is self-published under our rules, but I will point that out as an outstanding possible source to be mined if this is closed a Keep, as I expect it will be. Getting to information on the company through the biography of its founder is probably the best way to go here.

HIS OBITUARY WAS IN THE NEW YORK TIMES, that counts as one iron-clad, rock-solid source in this defense, at a minimum. Like I say, I am 100% sure that the numismatic press has substantial material on the firm and look forward to learning of that soon. Carrite (talk) 19:34, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

The STECKLOW PIECE from the Philadelphia Inquirer is another "keeper" for our purposes, that's two good sources at a bare minimum, not counting the self-published book — which I would. Carrite (talk) 19:41, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Info on the MAYNARD SUNDMAN LECTURE SERIES from the National Postal Museum. Carrite (talk) 19:46, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

THIS OBIT from the Hartford Courant notes that Sundman owned both Littleton Coin Co. and from 1974 the Mystic Stamp Co. — another very major mailorder retailer. Sundman is 107 miles over the notability bar, worst case scenario here would be for the Littleton piece to be userfied to me and rewritten as a bio of him with a redirect. But why is that necessary, I ask? Carrite (talk) 19:49, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Here's ANOTHER OBIT, this one from the Syracuse Post-Standard. Carrite (talk) 19:55, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Ah, this is right in the wheelhouse for HighBeam... "The coin is all their realm in Littleton," — The Boston Globe, Nov. 5, 2006. Substantial independent coverage of the company, not obit-related. Carrite (talk) 19:59, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

"HOARD OF AMERICAN COINS MAY BRING UP TO $7 MILLION," Buffalo News, Feb. 6, 1999. Article details Littleton having purchased "what is being described as the largest known hoard of American coins: more than 1.7 million Indian Head cents, Liberty Head nickels and Buffalo nickels, some worth hundreds of dollars apiece." Carrite (talk) 20:02, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Another piece on Littleton's activities, "A THOUGHT FOR YOUR PENNIES," from the Bergen County Record, July 24, 1997. Carrite (talk) 20:04, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

This is also independent substantial coverage of the company in a feature article on its current president, Don Sundman, son of Myron (above): "Childhood hobby now big business," The Business Journal, February 23, 2001. This illustrates why it is best to have a piece on the company rather than a redirecting biography piece on its founder or one on its current president. Carrite (talk) 20:08, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

• Comment - That should be more than sufficient and it doesn't include a single thing written before the middle 1990s and this company goes back half a century before that, nor does it include a single word from the numismatic press, which no doubt has visited this subject multiple times over the decades. Carrite (talk) 20:10, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

• Keep – notable company. The topic passes WP:GNG and WP:CORPDEPTH. Thanks to User:Carrite for the significant efforts to demonstrate this topic's notability. Northamerica1000^(talk) 04:46, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
• Comment. To use obituaries as sources for a company and to claim that numismatics publications are reliable sources is clutching at straws. It shopuld be easy to find sources for a WP article. If no it is not a notable topic. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 22:23, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Well, I suppose I should credit you for tenacity rather than getting all pissed off over what seems to be obstinance in the face of a barrage of reliable sources that demonstrate that this 65-year old firm passes WP:GNG. So I will. I will also note that nowhere in our guidelines is there a requirement that sources "should be 'easy' to find" for a topic to be notable. They must simply exist, which I have demonstrated. Best, Carrite (talk) 02:20, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

• Keep passes WP:CORPDEPTH. --SupernovaExplosion ^Talk 02:53, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

• Keep - Easy keep based on all of the sources highlighted thus far in the discussion.Rangoon11 (talk) 17:02, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
• Keep — Now that sources have been provided, this company easily passes WP:CORP. EdJohnston (talk) 19:47, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
• Keep Easily passes WP:CORPDEPTH. --68.111.239.233 (talk) 04:14, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.