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Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of certified albums in Romania/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man via FACBot (talk) 00:25, 18 August 2018 (UTC) [1].[reply]

List of certified albums in Romania

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List of certified albums in Romania (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Cartoon network freak (talk) 22:33, 28 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because I have put a lot of work into it, and I think it meets the required criteria. The lead may seem very short and trimmed, but I can't see any solution on solving this problem (if it will be considered a 'problem' for FLC). We don't have plenty of supportive links on the internet to expand the lead, and if I would expand it by citing e.g. artists with the most certifications, this could be easily considered unnecessary or even WP:OR. As for the "N/A" here and there, I believe it's still in good limits, as some things just weren't announced and I needed to note that somehow. I would appreciate some comments. Best of regards ; Cartoon network freak (talk) 22:33, 28 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Mattximus

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@Mattximus: Hi there! I've reworked the lead sentence and added two lines about what each certification stands for. Hope I could solve your concerns. Best regards; Cartoon network freak (talk) 04:53, 30 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Lirim.Z

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Resolved comments from Lirim | T
@Lirim.Z: Hi there! I've been looking forward to do something like that, but I soon realized after hours of research that no such data has ever been published online. It's clear that the certification levels have changed in time, but UPFR never made statements about when exactly they changed or to which number they were each lowered. Thus, I sadly can't do such a table on my own, as the information is missing and because it would be running at the risk to be classified as original research. Is this a major issue? Best regards, Cartoon network freak (talk) 17:50, 31 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It's somewhat of an issue, but you could point out that there isn't reliable information on the certification levels.--Lirim | T 21:10, 31 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Lirim.Z: I added a note on the subject matter; I hope that was what you were meaning. Btw, I saw you're German (Ich bin nicht deutsch, lebe aber in Deutschland :)) Best regards, Cartoon network freak (talk) 21:32, 31 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: The list seems complete, I checked some sources with google translate and they looked alright. The lead is good, not to many pictures, the table looks alright too. No problems, good list.--Lirim | T 21:46, 31 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from ChrisTheDude

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Resolved comments from ChrisTheDude (talk)
  • There's a few points in the lead which do not read quite right to a native English speaker. I have re-written it below and suggest you use this:
Since the early 1990s, over 70 albums have been certified in Romania in accordance with the certification levels set up by the Uniunea Producătorilor de Fonograme din România (UPFR).[2][3][A] These have been repeatedly lowered due to decreasing album sales in Romania primarily resulting from heavy music piracy; this led to fewer certifications being handed out from the late 2000s onwards compared to previous years.[4][5] To date, Cleopatra Stratan's La vârsta de trei ani (2006) is Romania's highest-certified record with a triple diamond award for 150,000 units sold.[1][3] Andra and Sandel Mihai were also awarded a diamond certification for selling 60,000 copies of their 2007 album De la frate la soră.[6] Over the years, further certifications have been handed out: gold (ranging from 2,000 to 100,000 units sold), double gold, platinum (ranging from 10,000 to 100,000 units sold), double platinum (100,000 copies), triple platinum and quadruple platinum. More to come when I have a bit more time......... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:23, 4 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@ChrisTheDude:  Fixed! Thanks for the suggestion and waiting for more... Best regards; Cartoon network freak (talk) 13:39, 4 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The only other thing I can notice at the moment is in the photo captions. in the top two, it should be "Holograf (lead singer Dan Bittman pictured)" rather than "Holograf (pictured lead singer Dan Bittman)". And in the Ellie Goulding caption you don't need to put "(pictured)" at all because there's nobody else in the picture so it's obvious that it's her........... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:30, 11 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@ChrisTheDude:  Fixed this as well! Cartoon network freak (talk) 20:29, 11 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from The Rambling Man

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Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 11:55, 6 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comments quick run through.
  • Lead is too short.
Please give some suggestions on how to expand the lead. This may sound odd, but there is not such a wide coverage of this subject on the internet, so adding controversial facts (or similar) will maybe not be possible. Cartoon network freak (talk) 21:57, 11 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "albums have been certified in Romania" doesn't need to be in bold. If I add that into the search box, it doesn't redirect me, it's not an alternative name for the list.
 Fixed Cartoon network freak (talk) 21:57, 11 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why "over 70"? It should be "more than 70" if you keep it vague, or else you could simply add a {{As of}}.
The "As of" formulation seems a bit strange to me in this context, so I changed "over 70" to "more than 70". Cartoon network freak (talk) 21:57, 11 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • You certainly can't say "to date" because that depends on when someone reads it. See WP:ASOF.
See above. Cartoon network freak (talk) 21:57, 11 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • There's a major issue here, most of the items in the list aren't even linked, let alone have articles. Is this actually a list of non-notable items?
You can't say that the items are non-notable, they rather just don't have their own articles on Wikipedia. In fact, nearly all albums are by notable Romanian artists with their own Wiki pages. Also, each record is notable itself, as it has sold an outstanding (at least in the Romanian market) amount of copies to be certified gold/platinum... by the UPFR. Cartoon network freak (talk) 21:57, 11 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
If you haven't done so already then, link the Romanian Wikipedia articles using the {{ill}} template. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:26, 26 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Holograf (pictured lead singer Dan Bittman) have won a total of three Gold certifications " all text inside parentheses should be italics. And Gold shouldn't be capitalised.
 Done Cartoon network freak (talk) 21:57, 11 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Artist names for soloists normally sort by their surname.
 Done with Sortname template. Cartoon network freak (talk) 21:57, 11 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref col shouldn't be sortable.
 Done Cartoon network freak (talk) 21:57, 11 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't know why this isn't one table with the certification as an additional column.
I think the article has more of a structure this way than if it was all thrown together in an endlessly long table, but I can change it up if you think that's a better solution. Cartoon network freak (talk) 21:57, 11 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think it would be "endlessly long" because you'd just add about 50% to the length. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:27, 26 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "triple Platinum" no capital P.
 Done Cartoon network freak (talk) 21:57, 11 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man (talk) 18:40, 11 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: I've answered to your comments so far. Thank you for your time! Best; Cartoon network freak (talk) 21:57, 11 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@The Rambling Man: Any thoughts about the article after I finished working on your comments? Cartoon network freak (talk) 22:02, 25 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@The Rambling Man: The article already uses interlanguage templates, but I've put the tables into one as you suggested. I hope this is what you meant. Cartoon network freak (talk) 20:17, 26 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]


Comments from A Thousand Doors

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Resolved comments from A Thousand Doors (talk | contribs) 13:51, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Drive-by comments
  • I'm inclined to agree with The Rambling Man that the lead is just too short. By my count the total prose portion of this article is 968 characters, which wouldn't qualify it for DYK, never mind FL. For comparison's sake, the featured lists List of best-selling Latin albums in the United States and List of best-selling albums in the United Kingdom both contain one or two paragraphs about sales certifications in their leads, which are longer than the entire lead of this article. Is there anything more that can be said about album certifications in Romania? Is it just for physical sales, or are downloads and streaming included too? Do we know which was the first album to be certified? When were the thresholds lowered? When were multi-platinum and multi-diamond awards introduced? Which artists have had more than one certified album? Who's had the most? Are there any quotes from artists about how important certification is to them?
  • I believe that we generally don't have row spans for sortable lists.
  • The Ref. column may look better centred.
  • More comments coming later.

A Thousand Doors (talk | contribs) 14:29, 27 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@A Thousand Doors: Thank you for finding time to review my FLC. I've done your suggestions regarding the table, and I've also expanded the lead. However, I couldn't include much of your points there—damn it again, Romanian stuff is hard to find on the internet—but I've expanded the lead in another way, coming to ~1200 characters now. (I guess you'll have to take a look over that again). Best regards, Cartoon network freak (talk) 21:02, 27 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That's obviously an improvement, but the lead still seems rather short. 1,500 characters' worth of prose is the absolute minimum that we ask an article to meet before it's promoted in even a minor position on the front page – by my count, this article still isn't quite meeting that. Do the leads of either List of best-selling Latin albums in the United States or List of best-selling albums in the United Kingdom provide any inspiration for how the lead of this article could be expanded?
Sadly, the articles you've linked didn't help me much. I could however add three more sentences to the lead, so I'm right now at ~1800 characters. Is that somehow okay? I really can't do much else. Cartoon network freak (talk) 22:26, 10 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • As I see it, the article's biggest problem (and this isn't necessarily a bad thing) is that no-one has ever nominated a list of this type to be featured before. Obviously, that's all the more reason to do it, since, when it is promoted, it'll set a precedent for similar lists to follow it. But I do think it means that we should make sure that we get it right.
  • For example, rather than having colspans indicate certification level, perhaps an extra column could be put in instead, like so:
The advantage of this is that you'd then be able to sort albums together by their certification level. You'd have to decide in what order the albums should appear when the page first loads (Year certified makes the most sense to me, but I recognise that that's quite a big change).
 Done It was hard work, but I've done it. Cartoon network freak (talk) 22:26, 10 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Cartoon network freak (talk) 22:26, 10 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why is the image of Andreea Bălan 30px wider than all the others? It looks a little odd to me.
 Done Cartoon network freak (talk) 22:26, 10 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • În culori, În lipsa mea and Șoapte are sorting incorrectly. I can talk you through how to fix this, if you want.
 Done I figured out how to fix this by my ownCartoon network freak (talk) 22:26, 10 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Anda Adam needs to sort under her surname. Ștefan Bănică Jr. needs to sort under Bănică, rather than Jr. Carmen Șerban is also sorting incorrectly.
 Done Cartoon network freak (talk) 22:26, 10 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Per MOS:QWQ, replace "Violent", "Jamparalele" and "Taina" in citations 17, 21 and 24 with 'Violent', 'Jamparalele' and 'Taina'. There are a few other examples of this elsewhere in the references.
 Done Corrected all citations. Cartoon network freak (talk) 22:26, 10 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The titles for citations 18 and 25 don't have English translations.
 Done Cartoon network freak (talk) 22:26, 10 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I realise that I've given a lot of criticism here, so, if you'd like to get your own back on me, my current open FLC is FHM's 100 Sexiest Women (UK). If you've got the time, I welcome any comments on it. Thanks, A Thousand Doors (talk | contribs) 13:31, 10 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@A Thousand Doors: Hi there and thanks for responding. I think I have adressed all your comments and responded to them. I will find time to look over your nomination this week. Best regards; Cartoon network freak (talk) 22:26, 10 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • So I've been through the article and made some changes. The certification column wasn't sorting correctly, so I changed that. I also centre-aligned the years and sales columns, made the images slightly narrower, and rewrote most of the second half of the lead. None of these changes is really vital (except maybe the certifications column), so please revert any that you disagree with and correct any mistakes that I may have made.
I corrected some things, but thank you very much for bringing in a much more encyclopedic language. Cartoon network freak (talk) 19:09, 13 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Have the UPFR's certification levels never been clearly defined, or just never publicly defined?
 Done Publicily is the right word indeed. Cartoon network freak (talk) 19:09, 13 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • If the UPFR was set up in 1996, how come the first album was certified in 1991?
 Done That indeed seems strange to me as well. I removed that as it made no sense. Cartoon network freak (talk) 19:09, 13 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • WP:CAP states not to have captions longer than three lines, so the ones for Cleopatra Stratan, Dan Bittman and André need to be shortened.
 Done Cartoon network freak (talk) 19:09, 13 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A Thousand Doors (talk | contribs) 09:59, 13 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@A Thousand Doors: Thank you very much for your time! I did everything. Cartoon network freak (talk) 19:09, 13 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "officially" is an easter egg. Either that sentence needs to be rewritten (i.e. to explain what Monitorul Oficial is), or the link to Monitorul Oficial needs to be removed.
 Done Removed the link. Cartoon network freak (talk) 19:09, 13 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater; you can still mention Monitorul Oficial in the lead. I've added it myself – please correct or remove if I've made any errors. A Thousand Doors (talk | contribs) 13:51, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@A Thousand Doors: We technically don't know which album was certified first, but Atât de singur is the only one I've found to win an award in the pre-2000 era (at least for now). Also, it seems like it was certified platinum straight. Cartoon network freak (talk) 14:58, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@A Thousand Doors: Are there any more points to be fixed? Cartoon network freak (talk) 04:22, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@A Thousand Doors: Thank you very much for the copy-edit. I have corrected some mistakes or word repetitions. Best regards, Cartoon network freak (talk) 04:36, 20 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@A Thousand Doors: Any news? Cartoon network freak (talk) 14:29, 11 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Nergaal

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Thank you very much for your edits! Cartoon network freak (talk) 22:28, 16 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from TompaDompa

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Resolved comments from TompaDompa (talk) 11:33, 17 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
*"When considering an album's certification level, the UPFR considers both its unit sales and its sales price." – I would like the WP:LEAD to note whether this is typical or atypical for album certifications (compared to other organizations).
 Done It seems very much like this procedere is atypical compared to other methods used by fellow organizations. Cartoon network freak (talk) 00:04, 17 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Romania's highest-certified record is La vârsta de trei ani by the Moldovan singer Cleopatra Stratan, which was awarded a triple diamond certification" – an explicit ranking of the different certifications should be provided. I recognize that there is an implicit (and incomplete) one two sentences down, but I'm looking for an explicit and exhaustive one.
I don't really understand you here. I list all certifications that have been handed out in Romania yet along with the sales they were awarded for. What is incomplete here? Cartoon network freak (talk) 00:04, 17 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'd like a sentence in the WP:LEAD that says something like "From lowest to highest, the certifications are: gold, [...], triple diamond." TompaDompa (talk) 00:25, 17 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Fixed Cartoon network freak (talk) 08:01, 17 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The plural of "crisis" is "crises".
 Done Cartoon network freak (talk) 00:04, 17 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm not a big fan of the WP:Redlinks, but since there are links to the Romanian Wikipedia I guess it's okay.
  • I don't think the list can be considered comprehensive per WP:FLCR 3(a) with this many cells empty. A thorough attempt to add the currently missing information should be undertaken before this is promoted to WP:Featured list status.
After a very thorough research, I could indeed fill in a couple of cells, but what remained empty can't be filled. There isn't enough information out there. Cartoon network freak (talk) 00:04, 17 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

TompaDompa (talk) 22:34, 13 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support TompaDompa (talk) 11:33, 17 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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