Talk:Irish War of Independence

Proclaimed

Hello, I haven't used talk pages before so apologies if this is the wrong format. I'm confused by the phrase "Sinn Féin was proclaimed in County Cork" in the summary. Is it missing a word (i.e. "Sinn Féin was proclaimed the rightful government of County Cork")? If not, what does it mean to proclaim Sinn Féin? I certainly don't know, and I doubt that the average English-speaking reader knows either. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.172.17.58 (talk) 00:36, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

See Wiktionary: in a historical context it means "make [something] the subject of an official proclamation bringing it within the scope of emergency powers". Scolaire (talk) 10:19, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Hi 174.172.17.58. Great pick up on the usage of the word proclaimed. In the dictionary the definition reads: "4. [Rare] to outlaw, ban or otherwise restrict by a proclamation." I will insert an explanation. Thanks, Palisades1 (talk) 17:24, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Commanders and leaders

I think it would make more sense to have Cathal Brugha listed as a political leader rather than a military commander since he was President of Dáil Éireann at the start of the war and then Minister for Defense afterwards. I also think that James Macmahon and John Anderson should be listed as British political leaders since they were the Under-Secretaries for Ireland and thus heads of the administration in Ireland during the war. 2601:84:847F:2DF0:5C9D:F54F:6FED:EA3 (talk) 00:06, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Interesting point about Cathal Brugha. James Macmahon and John Anderson should not be in the infobox , since they are not mentioned in the article. Scolaire (talk)

Understood, but nobody on the British side is mentioned in the article except for Macready, Lloyd George and Greenwood. Should the others be removed? I certainly think that the British side could be reworked. It includes people like FitzAlan and Macpherson, who not only aren’t mentioned in the article, but the articles on them make no mention of their roles in the war (I can at least see the reason for including Shaw, Tudor and French). It also doesn’t include Sir Henry Wilson, who played a very important role in the war and is mentioned in the article. 2601:84:847F:2DF0:1D72:394:8150:553 (talk) 02:18, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

I can't argue with that. Scolaire (talk) 11:14, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

Brugha was a little more than 2 months (21 January - 1 April 1919) President of Dáil Éireann while he served years in military roles. So leaving him as military leader makes sense. The Banner talk 11:26, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

From the article:

In theory, both Collins and Mulcahy were responsible to Cathal Brugha, the Dáil's Minister of Defence, but, in practice, Brugha had only a supervisory role, recommending or objecting to specific actions. A great deal also depended on IRA leaders in local areas (such as Liam Lynch, Tom Barry, Seán Moylan, Seán Mac Eoin and Ernie O'Malley) who organised guerrilla activity, largely on their own initiative.

I think Brugha should probably stay as a military leader, but the IP has a valid point. Scolaire (talk) 18:02, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

Ok sounds good. Does anyone have any suggestions to improve the British side? I certainly think that it could be cleaned up and unmentioned and unimportant people like FitzAlan and Macpherson could be removed and I think that Wilson could be added considering his vital role in the war. 4.30.215.194 (talk) 22:33, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

See WP:BOLD. --Scolaire (talk) 11:55, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

The so-called War of "Independence"

This war's actual name is the Anglo-Irish War. It does not result in independence; it results in Dominion status, just like Canada, Australia, etc. Why is a neutral encyclopedia caving in to Irish revisionism? 207.164.187.196 (talk) 01:50, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

The title of the article reflects the common name of the topic/subject. As expected by WP:COMMONNAME. "Irish War of Independence" is used in multiple and varied sources. Including the National Army Museum (British Army; UK), multiple books, UK National Archives, news sources in the US and elsewhere, etc. What is the purpose of your comment? If you believe that this article should have a different title, then please advise what title you are proposing. And how, with reference to multiple/independent/reliable sources, that proposed title is established as meeting WP:COMMONNAME. Guliolopez (talk) 16:00, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

FYI. Even a very quick Google Books Ngram view/search indicates that "Irish War of Independence" is more commonly used, than "Anglo-Irish War", in book sources. Guliolopez (talk) 16:07, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Use of tertiary source

Can anyone explain why Encyclopedia Britannica, a tertiary source, is used to replace reliable secondary sources with in-depth analysis? Thanks in advance. Darius (talk) 15:40, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Agreed about the tertiary source, and think it should be removed. I do think however that the two previous sources were WP:cherry picked - most historians view the war as being either Inconclusive/stalemate. Happy to discuss. Eastfarthingan (talk) 19:20, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

Result of the war

In 2022 we had a discussion about the result of the war, ending in a reasonable compromise. Recently this was changed with an unsuitable source, that was removed after some discussion. But in the mean time the earlier compromise was also removed, without any discussion. And I object against that. The Banner talk 19:00, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

No objection on restoring this change back. Eastfarthingan (talk) 11:47, 11 November 2024 (UTC)