Talk:Peja

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Albania Mid‑importance

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Cities

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This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Discussions:

Not moved, 16 July 2014, from Peć to Pejë, see discussion.
No consensus, 15 December 2014, from Peć to Peja, see discussion.
Not moved, 11 October 2018, from Peć to Peja, see discussion.
Moved, 18 August 2020, from Peć to Peja, see discussion.

Etymology

@AzorzaI not trying to follow you around or something, I have this page on my watchlist.

I'll have to object to your wording. The source doesn't mention "Serbian", it's ambiguous, it theoretically could also be another Slavic language or dialect. And it seems like the source claims that Peje, Pescium as well as Siperant stem from the term "pecina"? It is not really evident which form is referred to. [1]

As such, I'd propose to write that the Serbian form Pec comes from the Serbian term pecina. However, we would strictly separate it from Peja, Pescium and Siparant (which is mentioned by the source). AlexBachmann (talk) 19:42, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My proposal: The city is known as Pejë (indefinite) and Peja (definite form) in Albanian, while it was known as İpek (ايپك) during Ottoman times. The Serbian name of the city is Peć, which is derived from the Serbian word for cave, pećina. Other names of the city include Latin Pescium and Greek Episkion (Επισκιον) meaning "Episcopal City", as well as Siperant. AlexBachmann (talk) 19:47, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @AlexBachmann, I fully support collaboration and constructive feedback between editors, so I have no issue with you building on my edits. I appreciate you taking the time to reach out before making any changes. The source indicates that the current name "Pejë/Peć" derives from the South Slavic word "pećina," meaning "cave," regardless of whether it appears in Serbian (Peć) or Albanian (Pejë). While the source doesn’t explicitly specify Serbian, it suggests a South Slavic origin, with Serbian being a likely candidate given the context. I’m open to using either the more specific term (Serbian) or the broader term (South Slavic) and won’t oppose changes on this point. As for the historical names like Ottoman "İpek", Latin "Pescium," and "Siperant," they appear to have distinct etymologies unrelated to "pećina." The source primarily addresses the origin of the current name, not the historical names, which are no longer in use. Azor (talk). 20:45, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There's no doubt that there are many toponyms in Kosovo that are of Serbian/Bulgarian origin, however the supposed ć>j drift has not been solved yet in literature. As far as I know. Some time ago I removed the hypothesis that Malisheva in Kosovo is derived from Albanian "mal" (mountain) while it is clearly Slavic. I don't have a problem with Slavic toponyms (which are present all the way down to Morea) but especially Peja has remained a mystery for me. The source doesn't really state that the Albanian form comes from the Slavic one, while also mentioning Ipek in the alternative names next to Episkion/Pescium.

While it is obvious that Ottoman Ipek is from Pec (Ottoman often added an "I" before city names, e.g. İşkodra for Shkoder, İskenderun for Alexandretta), the source does not differentiate between those names. Ipek was the most common name for Peja during Ottoman rule, and Peja still is Peja in Albanian and not Pek/Peqja/Peshkja/... As I've said, I would let the Albanian name untouched as there are some phonetical difficulties with that one. AlexBachmann (talk) 21:58, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The source does not distinguish between the cognates Peć and Peja, and editing must be based on reliable sources, not original research, which the rest of your points appear to rely on. Azor (talk). 05:03, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Let's do it again: You claim that the source refers to Peja and Pec regarding the origin of the name. Yet, the source clearly distinguishes Ottoman Ipek (which is clearly from Slavic) from the Slavic form by including it with other forms such as Pescium. The source is very vague and the best you can do is apllying it to the Serbian form. The source only included the Albanian name Peja because it is also widely known as such. It's literally not evident at all what the source is trying to say. As for my other points, I can hardly provide you books that do not explain the etymology of Albanian Peja. If you do have one, you can kindly share the name of it with me. AlexBachmann (talk) 20:29, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As of now, your interpretation of the source is not neutral. You’re attempting to differentiate Peja and Peć, even though the source doesn't. I am not aware of any book that distinguishes Peja from Peć beyond their status as linguistic cognates, and I strongly doubt such a book exists. Azor (talk). 09:55, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Care to share books which explain Peja and Pec as cognates? Otherwise I’ll request a 3rd opinion. AlexBachmann (talk) 17:13, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sadly, there's no response to the request yet, so I'll just implement the version you agreed to. I will accept the version for now if no 3rd editor appears. AlexBachmann (talk) 20:19, 12 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Etymology

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