Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/David Kuijers

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. MBisanz ^talk 03:09, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

David Kuijers

David Kuijers (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Disputed prod. I'm just not sure he's a notable enough painter. Mere existence of his work at The Cape Gallery ([1]) doesn't seem like enough. I cannot find any neutral third-party review on Google but that could be more of a systemic bias problem than anything. Ricky81682 (talk) 08:50, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Keep I would find it sad for the article to be deleted. David Kuijers is an active painter, who has received important commissions. A book has been published about his work, which is also an indication of importance. And I fear that the distance of South Africa from the UK or the US, and probably the fact that there is less spin over there than here about contemporary art, plays against him in this dispute : an artist of his standing in the US or the UK would probably be recognised as above the notability threshold. Baronnet (talk) 09:13, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

• Delete, per WP:BIO. Incidentally, as a reply to Baronnet, the only book about him is written by himself (at least as it stands in the article). If he has important commissions, though, go ahead and add that to the article with reliable sources, and perhaps I'll change my vote to keep if you establish notability through those means. -Lilac Soul ^{(talk • contribs • count)} 09:38, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
• Strong Keep - Is Wikipedia only for notable Americans? I am concerned by the large number of articles based on international subjects that are being proposed for deletion. David Kuijers is a notable and published artist. His art is displayed prestigious galleries and he has had solo exhibits. I agree with Baronnet, if he were an American this would not even be a debate. Esasus (talk) 13:50, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Not true, I participate in CSDs, prods, and AfDs of several Americans. -Lilac Soul ^{(talk • contribs • count)} 15:50, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

• Keep True, it is hard to judge his notability from over here. For one thing we don't know anything about the Cape Gallery. However it would be better to err on the side of keeping for the sake of people who might be interested in him. The article does no harm. Northwestgnome (talk) 13:58, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Not a valid argument, per WP:NOHARM. -Lilac Soul ^{(talk • contribs • count)} 15:50, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

• Delete Just doesn't pass notability guidelines or have sources. Just because an artist is in a gallery or in a book (by himself) doesn't make him notable. Maybe if there were sources it would be a different matter. Richard Hock (talk) 15:32, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 00:01, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
• Comment As nominator, my concern was again, yes, he from South Africa, but the only thing we know is he's at the Cape Gallery and he himself wrote a book about his art. Does that mean that anyone outside the western world should be presumed to be notable? It's entirely possible for there to be a non-notable artist that's from South Africa. I'm not sure where people get the idea that if he were an American, he would remain. Those three commissions may be notable but again I'm not sure. He completed his schooling at a school, who's notability I don't know about, won an "Best Painter" award which is vague, followed with a dipolma from "Cape Town Technikon", who's notability I again don't know about. He now paints full-time, won three commissions which I don't know how to value (two hotels and a hospital are enough for notability?), has a gallery exhibit of his work and wrote a book himself about his art. I haven't been able to find neutral third-party sources, which in the end I thought would be the basic requirement. If people feel that someone who has a gallery that exists of their work and wrote a book themselves is enough for notability, either in the US or outside, that's fine but I strongly disagree. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 23:27, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

About the notability of Cape Town Technikon, created in 1920 : there is an article about it, except that it has now merged with another institution to create Cape Peninsula University of Technology in 2005. It is "just" one of the main higher education institutions of the Western Cape province in South Africa. Baronnet (talk) 08:48, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I'm willing to acknowledge that. Added the link as well. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 12:01, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

(Hi Ricky. Please excuse these comments for probably being a bit out of line. I may be paranoid but I can't help feeling that one reason Mr Kuijers's article is being AfDed is because as a white South African he is a "politically incorrect" person. I may well be 100% wrong on this. However if you could point out some "politically correct" persons whose bios you AfDed I would feel a lot better. This has nothing to do with keeping this article or not. Thanks.) Northwestgnome (talk) 14:09, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Responded at your talk page. I don't think ad hominem arguments need to be continued here. I will repeat: I listed this article because this article doesn't seem notable enough. The fact that he's not a "politically correct" person in your mind didn't even cross my mind as I freely admitted that there could be an argument for systemic bias. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 05:56, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

• Delete - no evidence whatsoever of notability. --Orange Mike | Talk 22:42, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.