Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Perion Network

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. The consensus here is that the article does meet the notability guidelines. There has been some editing during the discussion to address the advertising concerns and it may need more. Davewild (talk) 17:24, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Perion Network

Perion Network (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Essentially an advertisement. Direct promotional language: "The acquisition of MakeMeReach has enabled GrowMobile by Perion to expand its position as the industry’s most complete and comprehensive automated mobile marketing platform" ; "GrowMobile by Perion helps mobile marketers acquire and engage users"

Most of the references are press releases; the others are mentions. DGG ( talk ) 04:23, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

• Delete - same as for Perion Codefuel, press releases are not reliable sources.--Rpclod (talk) 04:41, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
• Keep The promotional product blurbs and market-speak needs toning down, at which point this would be a useful and informative page re an important Israeli company. -- Vonfraginoff (talk) 12:55, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
• Delete Per WP:TNT. There is not a sufficient amount of material worth keeping. If we remove all the press releases and promotion, there is no article left. CorporateM (Talk) 22:21, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
• Keep - Definitely needs to remove superlatives and ridiculous claims, but its a publicly traded company, and a fairly big one at that, which I think meets notability. I'll try to edit it back to normal. If no one edits it, then yes, it should be Deleted, but--with edits--it should be Kept. --FeldBum (talk) 16:51, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Israel-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 13:05, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 13:05, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Software-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 13:05, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

• Keep only if it can be improved but if not, delete as generally my searches found nothing outstanding here, here and here. This doesn't interest me and the possibility of having to translate any Israeli to English is not a task for me (not a speaker). SwisterTwister talk 18:06, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
• Keep This page has now been rewritten with new references. Nmwalsh (talk) 11:37, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

This is really confusing. I think you're talking about User:Nmwalsh/Codefuel, as proposed new content for this article, yes? There's also a DRV proposal at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2015 July 22, which seems to be essentially a duplicate of this AfD. -- RoySmith (talk) 00:38, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain (talk) 15:01, 18 July 2015 (UTC)

• Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.
  1. Habib-Valdhorn, Shiri (2014-05-19). "Perion Networks files to raise NIS 350m on TASE". Globes. Archived from the original on 2015-07-26. Retrieved 2015-07-26.
  2. Habib-Valdhorn, Shiri (2015-04-08). "Perion asked to pay $5m more for SweetIM". Globes. Archived from the original on 2015-07-26. Retrieved 2015-07-26.
  3. Tsipori, Tali (2012-12-09). "Sweetpacks CEO: Sale to Perion not from lack of faith". Globes. Archived from the original on 2015-07-26. Retrieved 2015-07-26.

     The article notes:

     Perion, formerly Incredimail, grew as a developer of free apps (mostly smileys) for e-mail users. Over time, mostly through acquisitions, the company has expanded its products line in order to become a leader in the Internet consumer field. So far, Perion seems to be headed down the right road, and the acquisition of SweetPacks should boost the company's revenue to over $100 million next year.

  4. Butcher, Mike (2012-11-08). "Holy Emoticons Batman! — Perion Network Acquires SweetPacks For $41M". TechCrunch. Archived from the original on 2015-07-26. Retrieved 2015-07-26.
  5. Butcher, Mike (2013-09-16). "Conduit, Worth $1.4BN, Merges With Email Giant Perion (Worth $153M) To Take Its Place On NASDAQ". TechCrunch. Archived from the original on 2015-07-26. Retrieved 2015-07-26.
  6. Lunden, Ingrid (2015-02-11). "Perion Buys France's MakeMeReach For Up To $13M To Expand In Social Ads And Europe". TechCrunch. Archived from the original on 2015-07-26. Retrieved 2015-07-26.
  7. Lunden, Ingrid (2014-06-30). "Perion Buys Grow Mobile For Up To $42M To Build Out Its Marketing Business". TechCrunch. Archived from the original on 2015-07-26. Retrieved 2015-07-26.
  8. Shamah, David (2014-08-01). "Perion extends Microsoft deal, ups mobile business". The Times of Israel. Archived from the original on 2015-07-26. Retrieved 2015-07-26.
  9. Shamah, David (2015-02-12). "Perion moves closer to mobile ad tech with new acquisition". The Times of Israel. Archived from the original on 2015-07-26. Retrieved 2015-07-26.
  10. Shamah, David (2014-01-03). "Perion celebrates Conduit deal with free stock for all". The Times of Israel. Archived from the original on 2015-07-26. Retrieved 2015-07-26.
  11. Shamah, David (2014-06-30). "Israel's Perion buys US firm for up to $42 million". The Times of Israel. Archived from the original on 2015-07-26. Retrieved 2015-07-26.
  12. Coppola, Gabrielle; Kamau, Edith Waringa (2014-08-12). "Google's Hold on Perion Runs Deep in Stock's 41% Collapse". Bloomberg News. Archived from the original on 2015-07-26. Retrieved 2015-07-26.
  13. Coppola, Gabrielle (2015-01-12). "Perion Sinks Amid Speculation Google to Change Search Policy". Bloomberg News. Archived from the original on 2015-07-26. Retrieved 2015-07-26.
  There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Perion to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

  Cunard (talk) 04:45, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sam Walton (talk) 19:38, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

• Delete, self-promotion PR page; not notable. However, if consensus allows it to be kept, it still needs to be re-written in an WP:NPOV way so it does not come across in its present form of a promotional piece. Kierzek (talk) 21:11, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

• Your "delete" rationale, a "just not notable" vote, is not supported by Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". Cunard (talk) 00:26, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

• Keep and copy edit. Meets WP:CORPDEPTH per available sources. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 14:41, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
• Keep Pity I can't add anything to Cunard's good rationale. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 21:05, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
• Delete. Looking over Cunard's list of sources, I can't escape the observation that they're all financial news. Stock movements, M&A activity, that sort of thing. All of which gets obligatory coverage in the financial press. I suppose this meets the letter of WP:CORP, but I'd still be much more impressed if there was coverage outside of the financial press. -- RoySmith (talk) 21:41, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

• Most media coverage about companies are "Stock movements, M&A activity, that sort of thing" since these are businesses. That's to be expected, and topics that meet this expectation are notable under the definition at Wikipedia:Notability#General notability.

  I also don't consider Globes, The Times of Israel, and TechCrunch to be the financial press.

  Source #8 ("Perion extends Microsoft deal, ups mobile business") is about a business deal and Perion's mobile business. Is this the kind of article (which is not about stock movements or mergers and acquisitions) you were seeking? Cunard (talk) 04:53, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Well, since you call that specific article out as an example, I'm going to assume that's the one you consider the best source. Looking at it closely, it's obvious that it's just a warmed-over version of Perion's press release, issued the same day that was published. There's a little copyediting, and they added some quotes supplied by Perion's people. The way these things work is a company sends the press release to media outlets a few days before the stated release date, along with a statement, "embargoed until such-and-such date at so-and-so time". The company's PR people then make themselves available to answer questions and provide quotes as individual publications request them.

If you compare them paragraph by paragraph, the similarities become obvious (PR = Press Release, TI = Times of Israel)

PR: TEL AVIV, Israel & SAN FRANCISCO--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- Perion Network,
PR: Ltd. (NASDAQ: PERI) announced today that it has signed a 3 year
PR: agreement with Bing, extending its existing partnership, starting
PR: January 1, 2015 through December 31, 2017.

TI: Israel’s Perion Networks is extending its agreement
TI: with Microsoft’s Bing search service, meaning Bing will keep powering
TI: search in Perion products for desktop and mobile platforms. The deal,
TI: announced Friday, extends the partnership between the two companies at
TI: least through the end of 2017.

PR: Upon mutual agreement, the
PR: agreement may be renewed for 2018 as well. The agreement includes
PR: desktop and tablet distribution with limited exclusivity in the United
PR: States as well as mobile distribution.

TI: With the deal, Perion becomes Bing’s prime — and only — partner for
TI: search on desktops and tablets in the US, as well as mobile
TI: platforms.

PR: In addition to Bing and Google, the Company also has search
PR: distribution partnerships with Ask.com and Yahoo.

TI: Bing isn’t Perion’s only search partner. The company has deals with Yahoo
TI: and Ask.com, and for the past several years has had an arrangement
TI: with Google, as well

PR: In parallel, and in conjunction with the fact that revenues from
PR: Google are no longer material to Perion, the Company decided to
PR: exercise its right to opt-out of its ClientConnect agreement with
PR: Google as of August 31, 2014.

TI: though Perion said it would opt out of that agreement at the end
TI: of August, because “revenues from Google are no longer material to
TI: Perion.”  Last year Perion acquired Israeli company
TI: Conduit’s ClientConnect toolbar business for $660 million.

The bottom line is that this does not meet our definition of a reliable, independent source. It's OK for backing up specific facts, but because it's directly derived from a press release, it is not useful to establish notability. Anybody can type a company's name into a search bar and dig up a pile of pseudo-sources like this. What you need to be doing is applying some thought and discretion to figure out which are significant, independent, sources, and which are just routine press release rehashes. It's not hard. Look for a sentence that smells like a press release and copy-paste it into a search bar. Look at the results. Note that many of them with similar wording have the same publication date. Bingo. Words like "material" are often a tip-off, because that has specific meaning in the finance world.

Now that I've invested the effort to do this analysis, I'm upgrading my vague comment above to a clear delete.

Disclosures: I am a Google employee. In a previous job, I was (marginally) involved with a Conduit joint project. But, I'd never even heard of Perion until this AfD. -- RoySmith (talk) 13:20, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

• RoySmith, It does happen that businesses exist in one's own industry that one has never heard of. But the coverage is out there to show notability, it just is.E.M.Gregory (talk) 17:41, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

I didn't mean to imply that they weren't notable because I had never heard of them. I was just trying to frame the scope of any possible COI to my comments. -- RoySmith (talk) 18:06, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

The Times of Israel does independent research that goes far beyond that press release. It is unsurprising that some of the facts in the press release are in the news article. But there is plenty of information in the article that is not in the press release:

Perion had been chiefly a consumer-oriented software company. IncrediMail is a free program that provides backgrounds, emoticons, signatures, animations, and more for both POP and web mail accounts, and Smilebox lets users share personal media (photos, videos, music) and content types (greetings, invitations, slideshows, scrapbooks, photo albums, collages and more) via any sharing method (email, print, burn to DVD, post to Facebook, blog, Twitter or SMS). Other products include Photojoy, which converts photos into collages, puzzles and screensavers; Molto, a mobile email app, and instant messaging service SweetIM.

It is unclear how this topic can be non-notable. There are numerous strong sources that establish notability per Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline.

Cunard (talk) 02:22, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

• Keep per Cunard. North of Eden (talk) 02:20, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
• Keep per Cunard.E.M.Gregory (talk) 17:41, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
• Keep per Cunard. Arthistorian1977 (talk) 06:54, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.