Jump to content

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Boot Monument/archive1

Add links
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Boot Monument

[edit]

Boot Monument (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

As of 23 October 2024, 01:22 (UTC), this page is active and open for discussion. An FAC coordinator will be responsible for closing the nomination.
Toolbox
Nominator(s): ‍Relativity ⚡️ 22:12, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about a strange monument located in Saratoga National Historical Park, New York. It is shaped like a boot. However, the monument's honoree is never mentioned on the monument because his name was Benedict Arnold, someone who betrayed the Continental army to the British army. I've brought this article from Start-class to GA-class (review), and then had it reviewed for A-class, which it passed. I think that it's now ready for FAC. ‍Relativity ⚡️ 22:12, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

Matarisvan

[edit]

I was a reviewer at the ACR and can support the article for promotion to FA class. I also did the source review and spot checks at the ACR which passed, I can do these again if needed. Matarisvan (talk) 19:11, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

[edit]
  • "continued to grow ever more bitter towards the Continental Army when he was passed over for promotion, lost his business, and he was court-martialed" => "continued to grow ever more bitter towards the Continental Army when he was passed over for promotion, lost his business, and was court-martialed"
  • Done
  • Link Arnold on first use in body
  • Linked in Background section; not sure if I need to link it elsewhere
  • "American Major General Benedict Arnold had contributed to both Battles of Saratoga" - can we get a bit more context around this? I doubt that almost anyone outside the United States has the faintest idea what/when the Battles of Saratoga were, so you need to explain that this occurred during the American Revolutionary War and potentially even add that this was fought between the Americans and British
  • "a writer of several military histories about the Battle of Saratoga" - singular? It was plural earlier
  • changed to "battles"
  • "the only monument in Saratoga National Park that does not say the name of its honoree" - as a monument can't speak I would suggest that "show the name" would be better
  • Done

Gog the Mild

[edit]

Recusing to review.

  • "However, at the end of the conflict, Arnold's leg and horse were shot. When the horse fell, Arnold's leg shattered." This doesn't really make sense, it is given almost in bullet point. It needs unpacking a litle and expressing in full prose.
  • I tried changing it to "While fighting at the Battle of Bemis Heights, Arnold's left leg was severely injured after it had been shot and crushed by his horse, which had been hit by gunfire as well.". Let me know your thoughts.
  • "This contributed to Arnold's bitterness ... This along with the fact that his ..." Could we avoid two consequecutive sentences starting with "This"?
  • Both sentences changed
  • Also, suggest rephrasing the first 'Along with his combat wounds, business troubles, Congress having promoted some rival and younger generals ahead of him, and a court-martial which resulted in him being convicted of two minor charges of using his role as military commander of Philadelphia to make a profit, this being overlooked caused Arnold to develop a growing bitterness towards the revolutionary cause.' or similar.
  • Changed to "In addition, his combat wounds, business troubles, the promotion of rival and younger generals by Congress, and a court-martial conviction of two minor charges of profiting off of his military commander of Philadelphia role further angered Arnold.", although I'm not sure how I feel about it.
  • "with Sir Henry Clinton finally offering". Introduce Clinton.
  • "and remained as a general there until the war ended." Could we be told the year it ended?

More to follow. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:53, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • "In a Saratoga Monument Association (SMA) meeting in July of 1882". Introduce the SMA.
  • "There were no objections to the stake." It is a little unclear by this.
  • "The monument underwent restoration after Adolph S. Ochs, publisher of The New York Times, financed it." Is it known when this restoration took place?
  • but it was later moved after further research as to where Arnold injured his leg, which was the more southern end of the main redoubt line." This is not clear and could probably be usefully rephrased.
  • "Appearance" section. This should start with an overall description - not with the inscription. This could be resolved by swapping the first and second paragraphs of the section
  • References: article titles should consistently be in title case, regardless of how they appear in their original.

Gog the Mild (talk) 18:31, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

[edit]

I'll do this in a little bit. Dugan Murphy (talk) 21:31, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here are a few comments to start:

  • Aryes should be Ayres
  • Ayres: I recommend replacing the url with this one that links directly to the book listing, rather than to a word search within the book.
  • I can't find the Ayres book in WorldCat, but I can find a 2006 print book with a similar name by the same author. Is the 2008 e-book a less-distributed update on the 2006 print book?
  • Ducharme and Fine: the pages parameter should show the page numbering, not the number of pages. For this entry, it should be 1309–1331, not 23.
  • Ducharme and Fine: Social Forces appears to be published in Chapel Hill, NC. Where did you find the publication place to be Athens, GA?
  • Duling: I recomment this url in place of the one the article currently uses, for the same reason as the one above for the Ayres book.
  • Frothingham: This listing makes it seem like it is for an article called "The Turning Point of the Revolution" by Frothingham and and Nickerson, whereas it is a review by Frothingham of Nickerson's book The Turning Point of the Revolution. You should remove Nickerson as author of the article and change the article title to "Reviewed Work: The Turning Point of the Revolution Hoffman Nickerson". Also add the full page range.

I'll continue looking through the sources and add more comments later. Dugan Murphy (talk) 22:18, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here are a few more:

  • Wikilink Benson John Lossing
  • Lossing: add New York, New York as location of publication.
  • Lossing: I recommend using this link.
  • Lossing: the url goes to volume 2. If the citation is to that volume, then add the volume number to the works cited listing.
  • Lossing: In a works cited list otherwise entirely composed of publications from the 20th and 21st centuries, this work stands out. Is there not a newer work that can support the claim that Arnold fled to New York to join the British?
  • I recommend Wikilinking Savas Beatie. It's a redirect to the founder of the company, which is not the most helpful, but I suppose there's a possibility someone will convert that redirect into a real article someday.
  • Murphy: I recommend using this link.
  • Tonsetic: I recommend this link.
  • Williams: I recommend using this link.
  • Citation 5 is Luzader 2008, p. 388–390 but should be "pp."
  • Citation 14 is Randall 1990, pp. 448–540. Is that supposed to be 448–450? 122 pages is way too long a range for this citation to be useful.
  • Leopold: I recommend using a citation template like Template:Cite document to fix the formatting issues.

I'll add more later. Dugan Murphy (talk) 01:53, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is the rest of my comments:

  • MOS:DATETIES tells me the date format for both the body and the citations should MDY instead of DMY. The exception listed there for articles on the modern US military, including biographical articles related to the modern US military doesn't seem to apply well to a history marker commemorating an 18th-century figure.
  • When using Template:Poem quote, don't use the source parameter for the citations. That parameter is for the name of the person being quoted, which the reader already knows is the monument. Instead, move the citations to the main body so they attach to the end of the inscription, rather than appear on a new line, preceded by an emdash.
  • Watson: Add a publication place since this is not a super well-known publication.
  • I recommend piping The Telegraph Wikilink so "(Nashua, New Hampshire)" doesn't show up in italics.
  • "Find Clue to Missing Monument": Wikilink goes to wrong paper.
  • "May Find Toe of Only Statue to a Left Leg": Since there's no Wikilink for the newspaper, I recommend adding the publication city.
  • Thompson: add publication date.
  • Rather than including "(U.S. National Park Service)" in the web page title, you list National Park Service in the publisher parameter.
  • "Digital Collections": It would be helpful to add New York State Archives using the publisher parameter. Also, capitalize "dedicated". Also, why is this the only web item without an archive link?
  • If The Washington Post is Wikilinked, so should The New York Times.
  • Coe: Capitalize the article title.
  • I would say you should pipe The Evening Tribune Wikilink, but it goes to the wrong paper anyway. If there isn't a Wiki article for this paper, you should add Providence as the publication place.
  • Duffus's initials appears to be R.I., not R.L.
  • I'm of the opinion that information in the infobox shouldn't need citations because it should only summarize information that is already cited in the body. In that regard, I recommend adding to the body the monument's location within the historical park (that info seems to be indicated in the last sentence of the 3rd paragraph of the History section, but it says it is in "Saratoga National Park", not Saratoga National Historical Park, as the lead and infobox indicate. Anyway, once that information is clearly indicated in the body, I think you can remove all citations from the infobox because all that info is already cited in the body.

Summary: Everything in the works cited list are either books held by university libraries (with the semi-exception of Ayres, per comment above) or articles in academic journals. The inline citations includes a few other sources, which all seem reliable. There's an impressive breadth of scholarship and journalism represented in this article for how short it is. Earwig finds plagiarism unlikely. Most of the similarities it can find are quotes. Citations are consistently formatted with the exception of minor issues, outlined above. Overall, the sources look great and I think all the issues above are very fixable. Dugan Murphy (talk) 01:22, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Boot_Monument/archive1&oldid=1252809998"
pFad - Phonifier reborn

Pfad - The Proxy pFad of © 2024 Garber Painting. All rights reserved.

Note: This service is not intended for secure transactions such as banking, social media, email, or purchasing. Use at your own risk. We assume no liability whatsoever for broken pages.


Alternative Proxies:

Alternative Proxy

pFad Proxy

pFad v3 Proxy

pFad v4 Proxy