Conversations That Matter

[INTRO MUSIC PLAYS. THE HOST WALKS

ONTO THE SET.]
KYLA: Good morning, one and all! I am
Kyla V. Paitan, host of Conversations
That Matter, and I hereby welcome you
to our special episode dedicated to
discussing the pressing issue of the
Israel-Hamas War. Tonight, we have two
esteemed experts who will shed light on
the challenges we face and the actions
we can take to build a sustainable future.
Please welcome Mr. Vincent Eike Macati-
og, renowned human rights activist and
peace advocate, as well as Dr. Kyle Rose
Mariene Tubuhan, Conflict Studies
Specialist and Professor of International
Relations.
[APPLAUSE]
KYLA: Thank you both for joining us
today. Dr. Tubuhan, let's start with you.
When and how did the Israel-Hamas War
begin? What are the main challenges
about the issue?
KYLE ROSE: Well, Kyla, like most wars,
the Israel-Hamas War begun as a result
of territorial disputes. For context, the
Hamas group is a Palestinian Sunni-
Islamic fundamentalist organization that
was founded in 1987. This took place
during the First Intifada, a Palestinian
uprising against Israeli occupation. The
Israel-Hamas conflict has evolved over
the years due to various factors besides
territorial disputes, the status of
Jerusalem, and the ongoing Israeli-
Palestinian conflict. The specific origins
and timeline of the conflict are complex,
with multiple incidents contributing to
the escalation of tensions between the
two sides. As such, it can be said that the
challenges revolving around the issue lie
in a decades-old disagreement that
hadn’t achieved a peaceful conclusion.
KYLE ROSE: What recently spurred the
current development, however, occurred
last October 7, when Hamas militants
launched an unprecedented cross-
border attack on Israel. It was a highly
organized stealth assault, and bulldozed
the border fence in multiple places,
catching Israel’s security apparatus off-
guard and overtaking overwhelmed
military defenses. This lead to a bloody
and chaotic rampage through civilian
areas.
KYLE ROSE: Hamas later said the aim of
attack was “to free Palestinian prisoners,
stop Israeli aggression on al-Aqsa
Mosque, and to break the siege on
Gaza.” At this point, it’s clear to us now
that Hamas’ primary interests lie in the
liberation of Palestine from Israeli
occupation and the establishment of
their own state and land. It’s a
combination of nationalist, religious, and
political factors, which have guided its
approach to the conflict with Israel.
KYLA: That’s awful to hear about… It
seems to me that the Hamas group
seems to genuinely believe that they’re
the ones in the right. Patriotic may their
motivations be, violence is never the
answer… So many innocent lives were
lost because of their attack.
KYLE ROSE: Indeed. However, even
before October 7, there had already
been 6,407 Palestinian and 308 Israeli
fatalities in the past 15 years, according
to U.N. data. Their conflict has been
going on for years and years. It
exemplified now because of current
development.
KYLA: What is the current stance of
Israel at the moment? May I ask that
question to you, Mr. Macati-og? How do
the power dynamics play about in this
issue?
VINCENT: Thank you for the question,
Kyla. Israel has maintained a firm stance
on defending its citizens and ensuring
the security of the state. Since the
Hamas attack last October 7, Israel has
escalated its 16-year closure over 2.2
million Palestinians in Gaza where
approximately half the population is
under 18, indiscriminately and
repeatedly bombing civilians while
cutting off access to all basic necessities,
including food, water, electricity, and
medical supplies, and on October 13
ordered a forced “evacuation” of 1.1
million Palestinians out of northern
Gaza.
VINCENT: I risk myself by saying this, but
it’s become increasingly clear that the
war raging on between Israel and
Palestine places the former at an
advantage—to begin with, from the very
beginning of their territorial dispute,
Israel should never have had a claim on
Palestine’s land. Palestinians, just as all
of us do, have a right to sovereignty and
freedom, and decades of being deprived
of that eventually led to the situation
today.
VINCENT: Israel has long since been
criticized for issues surrounding its
establishment. From how the Mandatory
Palestine’s Arab population fled or were
expelled in 1948, the conduct of its
armed forces in the Arab-Israeli conflict,
the establishment and expansion of
illegal Israel settlements in Palestinian
territories, its treatment of Palestinians,
and the blockade of the Gaza strip…
KYLE ROSE: As well as its impact on the
economy of the Palestinian territories,
its nuclear weapons program, and its
targeted killing programs… Israel has
every advantage in this war so far.
VINCENT: It’s true that violence is never
the answer. In a perfect world, war
would never have existed—but this isn’t
a perfect world, and it’s unequivocable
that Israel is attempting to commit, if not
already actively committing, genocide in
the occupied Palestinian territory,
specifically against the Palestinian
people in the Gaza Strip.
KYLA: That is…mortifying. And genocide
is quite a big word to use, Mr. Macati-og.
KYLE ROSE: It really is beginning to look
that way, Kyla. Human rights defenders
have accused Israeli Prime Minister
Benjamin Netanyahu of an "explicit call
to genocide" after he delivered a
televised address calling Israel's
imminent invasion of Gaza a "holy
mission" and invoked an ancient
mythical foe whom the God of the
Hebrew Bible commanded the Israelites
to exterminate.
KYLA: They’re bringing the Bible into
this?
VINCENT: Hypocritical as it may be, yes.
KYLA: That’s so ridiculous…but not
entirely surprising. Before we hear what
our guests have to say about this, let’s
take a break for a sponsored ad, brought
to us by Glow-will!
[ADVERTISEMENT 2, courtesy of
KIANDRE and GOLDWILL]

KYLA: We have now returned to our

talkshow, Conversations That Matter!
Before we resume to Mr. Macati-og’s
discussion, let’s take a look at this short
clip of Prime Minister Netanyahu’s
controversial speech.
[INSERT VIDEO]
VINCENT: Netanyahu had likened
Palestine to Amalek, citing the Old
Testament in 1 Samuel 15:3.—The Bible
commanded to wipe out all of Amalek,
including women, babies, children, and
animals. It’s not difficult to put two and
two together and…realize just what
Israel intends to do to Palestine, as well
as the lengths they’re willing to take to
justify their actions.
KYLE ROSE: Netanyahu has gestured to,
and in a way, defiled the Bible by
excusing his genocide against the
civilians of Gaza. Moreover, it isn’t just
him who holds these similar, twisted
ideologies: Israeli President Isaac
Herzog has asserted that there are no
innocent civilians in Gaza, while Defense
Minister Yoav Gallant vowed to
"eliminate everything" there.
KYLA: That is so…inhumane. However,
there’s also the fact that the Hamas are
recognized as terrorists… But that
doesn’t necessarily entail that all
Palestinians are affiliated with them,
right?
VINCENT: Precisely. In that same regard,
not all Israelites support Netanyahu as
well. Many have even protested against
him times of war, morality no longer
becomes classified in black and white.
Everything gets more chaotic and
difficult to understand, and even now
while I’m saying this, I can’t deny that
both Israel and Palestine have had their
faults, one way or another. Genocide is
simply out of the question, though…
KYLA: I feel sorry for all the innocents
involved in this… Ah, for our next
question… what do you think are the key
steps that governments and
communities should take to address this
crisis effectively? Like, what role do
international organizations play in this
case?
KYLE ROSE: Just as the United Nations
has consistently advocated for a peaceful
and negotiated resolution to the Israeli-
Palestinian conflict, I believe that we
must encourage both sides to engage in
dialogue and work towards a two-state
solution that ensures the security and
rights of both Israelis and Palestinians.
VINCENT: Evidently, the UN has
condemned violence and human rights
abuses committed by both parties and
has called for the protection of civilians
and the respect of international
humanitarian law.
KYLA: I bear the same sentiments…
However, while such a conclusion is
ideal, I also know that it’s all the more
difficult to achieve. Now, for our next
question… How does globalization
impact this issue?
KYLE ROSE: Well, as we all probably
know, globalization impacts this issue in
the way that the market prices in our
economy will surely be affected due to
the war. Conflicts that occur in the
Middle East often result in oil price
spikes and such. In this case, however,
the escalation of the Israel-Palestine
conflict has happened alongside the
realignment of various global alliances.
This slow creep of “deglobalisation” can
be seen in a shift in trade policies in
recent years.
VINCENT: As a product of globalization,
the internet is impacted by this, too.
News of the war have spread all
throughout the globe, and many people
have begun to take sides. There’s an
entirely different war between morals
and opinions going on in social media
sites, even now as we speak.
KYLA: I suppose that just reveals how
other countries’ disputes can affect us as
well…
KYLA: …Thank you both for your valuable
insights. Before we move on, let's take a
short break for a word from our
sponsors.
[ADVERTISEMENT 2, courtesy of
KIANDRE and GOLDWILL]
KYLA: Welcome back. Our discussion on
the Israel-Hamas War is almost coming
to an end... Before we reach a
conclusion, Mr. Macati-og and Dr.
Tubuhan, what messages would you like
to leave our viewers with today?
[VINCENT and KYLE ROSE share their
insights]
HOST: Thank you both for your insightful
contributions. That's all the time we
have for today. Join us next time for
another enlightening discussion here at
Conversations That Matter. Goodbye,
everyone!
[APPLAUSE AND OUTRO MUSIC PLAYS.
THE HOST WAVES TO THE AUDIENCE
AND EXITS THE SET.]