Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive232
Capitals00
[edit]| In no particular order, SheriffIsInTown, Capitals00, NadirAli, JosephusOfJerusalem, D4iNa4, MapSGV, TripWire, Mar4d, MBlaze Lightning and Raymond3023 are all indefinitely banned from edits and pages related to conflict between India and Pakistan, broadly construed. They may appeal this sanction on its merits in the usual ways or at this noticeboard on a showing of six months of positive contributions elsewhere on Wikipedia. They are all warned that any further disruption or testing of the edges of the topic ban are likely to be met with either an indefinite IPA topic ban or an indefinite block.Sdmarathe is indefinitely banned from interacting with Vanamonde93, subject to the usual exceptions.I am not going to take any action against Lorstaking at this time, though they should note that some have found their participation on noticeboards, and in particular as it relates to editors named above, to be disruptive and I advise them to go careful in the future. GoldenRing (talk) 09:32, 15 May 2018 (UTC) |
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| The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Capitals00[edit]
This user has a tradition of accusing any editors he has disagreements with to be ″incompetent″, abusing WP:IDHT in content disputes and general incivility. There's a lot of bad-faith comments and ad hominem personal attacks coming from him. The environment this user is creating throughout the project, regardless of topic area, is unhealthy for Wikipedia editing. The block log shows that this historic behaviour is not improving. Which is why I think a very long block is in order. I am going to invite administrator Sandstein who dealt with a similar case with similar users to take a survey of these cases. JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 07:14, 12 May 2018 (UTC) Response to Capitals00 by JosephusOfJerusalem[edit]Well lets see your defense case. It has not yet been decided by the administrators at Copyright problems/2018 May 10 that there have definitely been copyright violations yet your WP:PERSONALATTACKs and repetitive uncivil accusations of incompetence against NadirAli and SheriffIsInTown are unceasing and relentless.[3][4][5] So you were already skating on thin ice there. Your response also does not address the uncalled for WP:ASPERSIONS you cast on Samee. This comment is nowhere near the level of WP:PERSONALATTACK the way your comment is in diff 8. WP:BRD here is no justification for this rude (diff 4) vitriolic accusation of incompetence by you on The Discoverer's talkpage. As for Talk:Siachen conflict it does not matter what consensus is or not until it has been reached. You were making accusations of incompetence and generally incivil replies while discussion was ongoing. Now for your offense case, which is a classic deraiment which cannot justify your misconduct (read WP:NOTTHEM) lets break it down. Going by this user's edit history it is definitely a sleeper account, last active in 2016, then showed up to do a revert and vitriolic talkpost before disappearing and not responding ever again on Talk:Princely state despite the disruption caused. This comment on my talkpage was not a WP:PERSONALATTACK, not least considering that in that context the discussion was initiated by a spurious accusation against me of making ″deceptive pov edits″ (a reference to this plain verifiable edit which has no POV). This edit is an entirely verifiable edit which you wrongly call ″gossip″. The rest of your diffs about me[6][7][8] are either before Bishonen's advice or they are a misrepresentation of my messages of appeal to administrators to stop edit wars. The latter is not WP:CANVASSING. Again read WP:NOTTHEM. Your misconduct stands unjustified. The evidence concerning you is definitely more extensive than 10 diffs if I really put my mind to collecting them. An example can be your revert of a WP:STATUSQUO version of History of Gilgit Baltistan with a deceptive edit summary of WP:BRD and again here just today after Mar4d was kind enough to restore the WP:STATUSQUO. It is also worth noting you had no prior or subsequent participation at Talk:Princely state despite the false use of WP:BRD in your edit summary. Response to Raymond3023 by JosephusOfJerusalem[edit]You have not addressed any of Capitals00's misconduct. Rather you have engaged in WP:IDHT by repeating Capitals00's arguments which I have already quashed here. Perhaps it is natural you will defend Capitals00 and D4iNa4 given your history of coordination with them. I point to the evidence of WP:TAGTEAM here
Response to Power~enwiki by JosephusOfJerusalem[edit]This is a critical analysis of your comment, here. You claim ″The Balochistan one makes nobody look good; perhaps those diffs should be ignored.″ I think you are mistakenly making a false equivalence and making a broad generalisation by unfairly painting everyone with the same brush without due regard to the behavioural facts. Lets take a look at what happened. The first reply was from Samee, the second was from me. There were no personal attacks or direct comments about specific editors by either of us. According to Dennis Brown a bit of minor push and shove is okay. Now here is Capitals00's reply to both of us. It is certainly not a minor push and shove. Capitals00 cast WP:ASPERSIONS on Samee, Now lets get to the Capitals00-SheriffIsInTown exchange. This is SheriffIsInTown's comment with no WP:PA. This is Capitals00's reply, Going through this history shows that the problem is coming only from Capitals00's ″side″ here. JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 03:48, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
Response to Justlettersandnumbers[edit]Can you point out the diffs of ″combative behaviour″? I have already explained in length here, with detailed explanation of diffs, that the problems are entirely one-sided. I agree with SheriffIsInTown's statement that the behavioural problems of a few editors are being unfairly thought of as a problem from everyone. There is no need to create a false equivalence between everyone for the bad actions of a few. Justice does not mean collective punishment, it means identifying the culprit, this is not a Catholic high school where the whole class gets lunch detention because of a few naughty students. JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 11:54, 13 May 2018 (UTC) Response to Vanamonde93 by JosephusOfJerusalem[edit]I don't think its appropriate for you to comment here because you are involved in much of where Capitals00 is and you are also quite evidently friendly with and defensive of Kautilya3. The user you are protecting calls simple edits such as these "deceptive POV edits" and calls my verifiable editing "smearing." He also thinks these simple and verifiable edits[22][23] are some sort of game. This is an exhibition of battleground behaviour. And shortly after making an incorrect equivalence between me and Capitalsoo's blatant misconduct to ask that I also be blocked with Capitals00, he decides to revert a more than week old edit of mine on a page where both of us had been active and where he had not reverted me before now, since I made the edit. This opportune timing to revert me after commenting against me is also a textbook example of his WP:BATTLEGROUND behaviour. JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 21:43, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
Response to GoldenRing by JosephusOfJerusalem Pt.1[edit]You have cited these three diffs, (diff1,diff2,diff3) as ″evidence″ of my misconduct. I made no personal attack here, I was just making a general comment about the nature of the indefinite block request that it seemed like a disproportionate retaliatory request because of NadirAli's involvement in a SPI against Capitals00 in the recent past. According to Dennis Brown a bit of minor push and shove is okay. What is exactly wrong in my recitation of Wikipedia guidelines here? It was the most civil response I could give to this inflammatory comment. I deserve marks for keeping my cool in the face of such heat, not punishment. And this diff is by no means a misconduct because WP:RPA entitles any editor to remove personal attacks. My AfD nomination here is by no means actionable. It is an article with only two references, one of them called the "News Laundry". This is also a civil reply considering the heat I was up against. I heeded Bishonen's advice and I did not make any more comments like that after his message on my talkpage. And how is my participation here battleground mentality? I have faced problems with some users' conduct and thats all I wanted dealt with. And why don't you look at Kautilya3 's actions? He calls simple edits such as these "deceptive POV edits" and calls my verifiable editing "smearing." He also thinks these simple and verifiable edits[24][25] are some sort of game. Isn't this an exhibition of battleground behaviour? And look at this. After I created this section on Talk:Exodus of Kashmiri Hindus Kautilya3 left this notice on my talkpage. He accused me of "targeting editors" just because I opened sections with user names in the headings. What's remarkable is that he does that himself, but that is not targeting editors? Just last month he created a section on Talk:1947 Jammu massacres with a heading calling my edits "Poor quality edits". He also accused me then and there of making "POV edits" and fighting "silly games" because of this verifiable edit. Evidently, when I see other TPs, I am not the only user having this issue of double standards with him. You should also consider what I have to face and the civility I have maintained in spite of all this. JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 20:43, 14 May 2018 (UTC) Response to GoldenRing by JosephusOfJerusalem Pt.2[edit]
"Deceptive POV edits"[edit]So this is Kautilya3's justification for calling my edit a "deceptive POV edit". I am going to deconstruct this. 1. NadirAli pointed out that the journal was available online. 2. So this is an organisation funded by the Indian Ministry of Defence. I changed "shaping" to "influencing" because I did not think there was a big deal of a difference. In fact "shaping" in my book implies greater "influence" so I actually toned it down and made it sound extra-neutral. 3. I added "claims to be" before "autonomous and non-partisan" because it came from self-published sources and is a self-sourced claim. 4. I added "independent" to a Pakistani think tank because that is what Pluto Journals, respectably associated with JSTOR called it. I do not accept the sources Kautilya3 added (over the protests of other users) because I think Pluto Journals is more qualified to know the nature of that institution than journalists. The above were essentially content disputes and I know shouldn't be here on WP:AE. But what I am trying to say is that he had no right in any way to call my edit "deceptive POV". JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 03:58, 15 May 2018 (UTC) Response to Seraphimblade by JosephusOfJerusalem[edit]Seraphimblade, Lets leave Kautilya3's restrictions aside for a moment. If you think I should be sanctioned for such mild words here, diff1, diff2, diff3, then why shouldn't the same stick be applied to Kautilya3 for these threats and condescending remarks?
If you want more proof then look at this. Kautilya3 left a message on PeerBaba's TP telling him to slow down his editing because of WP:NPOV issues. Okay fine. But why so aghast if I had similar objectons about their edits. He accused me of "spurious WP:IDONTLIKEIT revert" (see diff). His patronising attitude is widespread. My alleged misbehaviour ([31][32][33]) was before Bishonen's advice to me.[34] Therefore I should be cut some slack about those diffs. I want to ask you Bishonen, that if my "bad faith" warranted this message in February why can't the same be told to Kautilya3 for his accusation of deceptive POV editing, on my TP? All I am saying is that I want equitable treatment. JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 02:34, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Capitals00[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Capitals00[edit]Looks like JosephusOfJerusalem is back to his usual modus operandi by filing frivolous report on this board to get rid of his opponents like he has also done before. 10 diffs from last 4 months is all he got? When you are wasting time of majority of editors by going against consensus and engaging in disruption, you just can't expect other editors not to cite WP:CIR and WP:IDHT or react. To reply all those cherrypicked diffs, it is a mere reaction when you see hoards of disruption by editors engaging in violations of WP:OR(diff 8), WP:COPYVIO(diff 5), WP:BRD,(diff 4) WP:NPA/WP:IDHT(diff 1),(diff 2), (diff 3), (diff 6 and diff 7), (diff 9), (diff 10). Citing WP:CIR is not a personal attack, because that page is "an explanatory supplement to the disruptive editing guideline" per community consensus.[36] Much of the diffs here comes from Talk:Siachen conflict where consensus was to include what I supported. Why you can't show diffs where I was going against consensus or I had been problematic and had no consensus for edits? JosephusOfJerusalem has always engaged in personal attacks:-
And rest of the diffs of this report and below one comes from Wikipedia:Copyright problems/2018 May 10, where JosephusOfJersualem has defended copyright violation by falsely claiming that "I could not find any copyright violations".[42] Now that is clear evidence of WP:CIR and WP:DE, and he also attempted to selectively censor a comment that he didn't liked.[43] Clearly he has competence issues and thinks that it is a personal attack if WP:CIR has been cited to him, despite his defense of copyrights violation and clear WP:IDHT. In a separate incident from February 2018, he was arguing against 4 editors and alleging of them failure of "WP:LISTEN" and engagement in "WP:CANVASSING", ""WP:DISRUPTION".[44][45] It shows that he resorts to falsely allege others of misconduct only because he is not getting consensus for his POV. He had been also warned by Bishonen for this problematic editing. However there has been no improvement and the attitude of this editor has only worsened. Furthermore, Bishonen had asked him if "there anything you'd like to share about any previous account/s?"[46] given he registered on 18 October 2017 and has been too professed when it comes to WP:GAMING. JosephusOfJerusalem suspiciously removed that message.[47] I would request an indefinite topic ban on JosephusOfJerusalem per evidence above as well as for the following:-
If these editors had been sanctioned earlier, I don't think any of these problems would be arising to this extent. I believe that NadirAli and TripWire are the only candidates that deserves to be topic banned because it has been already proven that previous topic bans on their accounts have not worked. I am 100% hopeful that things will surely improve without having these two editors in this area. The language that I have used had to be a lot better, about which I agree. But so far no evidence of problematic article editing has provided for me and D4iNa4, and we have not engaged in edit warring, IDHT, OR, COPYVIO, or any other forms of WP:DE. MapSGV has not a participated in any of the disputes that you have linked, why you have proposed a ban on him? I am watching SPI that concerns JosephusOfJerusalem though his above filibustering is difficult to follow. I guess a topic ban on him is not really going to hurt. As for SheriffIsInTown and Mar4d, I believe that they would carefully read this complaint and indeed avoid the actions that resulted the situation. Capitals00 (talk) 13:28, 14 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by Raymond3023[edit]Ironic to see an offensive editor, editing with a battleground mentality, often assuming bad faith and demonstrating significant competence issues is talking about "civility". These two reports are result of the failure of JosephusOfJerusalem to get his preferred non-consensus version of Princely state protected after trying hard for it.[104][105][106][107] It is fair to say that JOJ is a case of WP:CIR and probably WP:NOTHERE, since he is mostly engaging in ethnic POV battles, similar to "Towns Hill" (a banned sockmaster). JOJ's failure to understand copyrights, STATUSQUO, and misrepresentation other relevant policies while mass canvassing other editors with the hopes that he would receive some support for his frivolous report shows that having him topic banned or blocked indefinitely would be best for us. Raymond3023 (talk) 10:30, 12 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by MBlaze Lightning[edit]This is frivolous complaint; there is nothing in the diffs which would even remotely constitute "personal attacks". Also, it is worth mentioning that the majority of the diffs in question are months old—some of them dates back to February, 20 i.e. they are stale. Things get heated up in these subjects, especially when you are dealing with clear WP:OR, WP:COPYVIO, WP:NPA, WP:IDHT, but there is nothing sanctionable. JosephusOfJerusalem comments demonstrates a glaring lack of understanding of the very policies that he citing, not to mention his gross battleground mentality as is evident from his comments here and elsewhere. I also agree with the above comments that JosephusOfJerusalem is desperately trying to get the editors with an opposite POV topic banned so that he could push his POV in peace. And not long ago, JosephusOfJerusalem has filed a similar frivolous report against another established editor.[108] If JosephusOfJerusalem perceives comments like, "You can keep the wikilawyering nonsense with yourself" as "WP:PERSONALATTACK", then he's clearly demonstrating incompetency. He does not even know when to indent and when to outdent his comments,[109][110] so he should not be astonished when an established editor points him to WP:CIR. What's more striking is that these filings are strongly reminiscent of filings of socks of Faizan/Towns Hill, in particular Sardeeph (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) who used to file similar spurious reports against me and Kautilya3 in order to get them blocked by citing similar trivial or non-violations. Sardeeph was eventually blocked by Boing! said Zebedee and Black Kite for WP:NOTHERE after a long ANI thread[111] that he had himself started and cited same type of evidence that JosephusOfJerusalem has cited here as well as attempted to canvass dozens of editors just like JosephusOfJerusalem is doing here. Similarities between Sardeeph and JosephusOfJerusalem are just more than that. There is a clear case of WP:DUCK.
Sardeeph was indeffed on 20 October 2017. JosephusOfJerusalem registered on 18 October but made his first article space edit on 31 October.[116] I see no doubt that JosephusOfJerusalem is a sock of Sardeeph and he should be blocked for his block evasion. MBlaze Lightning talk 13:54, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by Mar4d[edit]Support indefinite block on Capitals00; According to JoJ's editing history, he is a neutral user and someone who doesn't have a personal, vested history in this disruption-ridden topic area. Unfortunately I find his observations spot on, having seen Capitals00's edit warring, incessant personal attacks, WP:NOTTHEM excuses and disruptive WP:BATTLEGROUND behaviour across all pages. The above WP:WALLOFTEXT is the latest example. This unmanageable approach and attitude is justified and tolerated repeatedly without consequence, and the long-term harm it is doing to the project is completely unaccounted for. This user is responsible for creating a deeply toxic editing environment, and has no one to single-handedly blame but himself. Unlike JoJ, the vast majority of Capitals00's recent talk page interactions involve personal attacks and confrontational vitriol directed at others, not to mention continuous condescending harassment, and there's stack-loads of evidence: [117] [118] [119] [120] [121] [122] [123] [124], [125]. [126], [127], [128], [129], [130], [131], [132], [133], [134], [135], [136], [137], [138], [139], [140], [141], [142]. This adds on to the myriad of edit wars, escalating new content disputes, and forcing in relentless WP:POV. It is no wonder then that the entire topic area is in a pitiable condition, when these problems are just the tip of the iceberg. I will take strong exception to MBL and Raymond3023, both of whom are involved users (their own highly problematic conduct issues require a chapter), who defended this user's disruption first on an SPI case (where he himself was not available for defense), and then in the most frivolous example of WP:TAGTEAM on ANI. When multiple people are observing the same, the question is, how long? This needs to end as it has become a net negative for Wikipedia, and it's time the curtains are pulled. For a user who has consistently shown no signs of improvement or reform, an indefinite block is in order. Mar4d (talk) 14:30, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by D4iNa4[edit]Come on Mar4d. Regardless of your long term disruption, you had to be blocked indefinitely a few hours ago for your exceptional disruption on 2016 Indian Line of Control strike. That you edit warred to get that article redirected[143][144] then you started a senseless AFD [145] and after already realizing that you will fail to get the article deleted, you tried to get it deleted under frivolous A10,[146] and after that your senseless AfD was closed as WP:SNOW "speedy keep" under a few hours.[147] That's what sanctionable conduct is, not the diffs showing Capitals providing warnings/guidance to users that you have misrepresented just like you misrepresented. Don't talk about "improvements" when you fail to get consensus on just every single article that you disrupt, such as 2016 Indian Line of Control strike, Siachen conflict, Kashmir conflict, India–Pakistan border skirmishes (2016–present) and lots more. D4iNa4 (talk) 14:44, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
Vanamonde93, you have misrepresented diffs in your comment. The four diffs provided by Raymond3023 are showing that how JosephusOfJerusalem was WP:GAMING the system to get his version protected by edit warring[148] and misrepresenting WP:STATUSQUO.[149] I should also mention that NadirAli made 3 reverts in less than one hour.[150][151][152] On 14:44 yesterday, the comment I had made here by including the diff for "speedy close" is much before the diff for "swiftly reversed" you are providing, because the revert of the the speedy closure happened on 16:21, nearly two hours after my comment on here. You can ask any uninvolved admin if a block is warranted for restoring the copyright violation for which the user has already received a warning, the answer you will get would be yes. Bigger question is that why it happened at first place, had NadirAli never violated copyrights or just heeded the warning he had already received?[153] Given he has been blocked enough times for copyrights before, why really made him deliberately ignore copyright violation? I will be adding more evidence here of actual misconduct but right now I am more inclined to wait for the outcome of the SPI: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Sardeeph. D4iNa4 (talk) 18:14, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by SheriffIsInTown[edit]
Voluntary abstention proposal[edit]
Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 22:00, 14 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by power~enwiki[edit]Many of the editors involved here "on both sides" of the India-Pakistan conflict are out of control. I'd recommend the AE admins consider sanctions against most (if not all) of the involved parties here. I note recent ANI threads from May 5 (on sock-puppetry) and April 14 (on Hookah) as involving many of these editors and being fairly disasterous. power~enwiki (π, ν) 18:20, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by Razer2115[edit]WP:AE is not supposed to be used by tireless POV-pushers to try to eliminate editors who clearly have much better grasp of WP:NPOV, WP:BRD, WP:CON, WP:COPYVIO and other relevant policies. Report seems to have been filed by a probable sock per recently opened Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Sardeeph and is nonetheless frivolous. Razer(talk) 18:35, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by Vanamonde93[edit]I cannot take admin action in this case, but I would seriously suggest a "plague on both your houses" approach here. I've looked through the diffs, and there is little to choose between the behavior of the various protagonists, with the exception of Kautilya3. There's plenty of impolite language, accusations of bad faith sans evidence, filing of pointy reports at various noticeboards, a tendency to stonewall to protect favored sources/content, and generally far too much evidence of battleground behavior. I'd recommend a topic ban from the Indo-Pakistan conflict for at least the four principals here. Vanamonde (talk) 04:42, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by WBG[edit]
Statement by Justlettersandnumbers[edit]It was I who moved an extended and argumentatious discussion from Wikipedia:Copyright problems/2018 May 10 to Talk:History of Balochistan, as it was not advancing the process of establishing whether there's been a copyright violation or not. There seems to have a great deal too much combative behaviour by a number of editors here, including the OP. It's apparently just the sort of thing the discretionary sanctions are intended to prevent; Vanamonde's suggestion seems appropriate in the circumstances. Capitals00, could you please tell me, here on this page, in clear and simple terms: does your copyvio report concern only material copied as quotations in the references? NB: it anyway has brought to light another apparent copyvio, which I'll deal with in due course. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 11:39, 13 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by Kautilya3[edit]I have been quiet because I had been busy and this discussion has been too chaotic for me to make sense of. Now that Vanamonde93 has helped to clarify it, here are my two cents. As for the COPYVIO issue at History of Balochistan, I said in my edit summary "please trim the quotes". NadirAli came back several hours later saying "Trimmed quotes". Till now everything seems normal. However, it wasn't immediately clear what NadirAli had done, because the byte count went up rather than down. Perhaps that is why MBlaze Lightning reverted it again. The next step would have been for MBlaze and NadirAli to discuss it somewhere. I don't know why Capitals00 and JosephusOfJerusalem got involved in this affair. But they did, and things went downhill soon after. I would recommend a short block for both of them to get their act together, and give an opportunity for the involved editors to discuss things with each other. Why I am recommending it for both of them? Because Josephus's hands are not clean. One of the very first edits he did in his career was this whole-article blanking to help out his friend KA$HMIR, but KA$HMIR got caught with his pants down. We spared Josephus then. I don't see why we should keep on sparing him. He continues to play all kinds of games to help out his friends. Getting rid of this gangsterism is the first step to bringing some sanity to the India–Pakistan pages. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 20:10, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by Ivanvector[edit]I'm posting up here because while I'm not really capital-I Involved here, I have frequently interacted with this dispute via SPI, where reports just dealing with this small but noisy group of editors have accounted for numerous cases just this year, many (but admittedly not all) of them obviously retaliatory, and many just plainly dredging up old grudges. Unfamiliar observers should be able to see from the links provided in this thread that this behaviour is widespread: any time there is any sort of content dispute it escalates rapidly to the administrative noticeboards, where we entertain a back-and-forth name-calling while the dispute moves toward resolution. The only real reason that many of these editors are still allowed to edit is that nobody who isn't already involved really wants to take sides in this ongoing battleground affair. As admins, our responsibility is to prevent disruption, not to punish, and so like many of the other neutral observers here it's my observation that the way forward from here is an admittedly unusual mass topic ban. I endorse GoldenRing's proposal, although I have thoughts about some users who are and are not named in their list and will have to come back to this in a bit because I have a real-life thing to do. For completeness and simplicity I recommend any topic ban issued here should cover the same topic scope as WP:ARBIPA. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 13:16, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by Sitush[edit]This diffs are already plentiful above. At least some of the people involved in this mess should be indef topic banned at the widest scope of ARBIPA because the issues run deeper than just Indo-Pakistani conflicts. For example, Capitals00 seems to have problems with anything to do with Hindu/Muslim/India/Pakistan issues and has done for years, as indicated by the current content of their talk page. D4Ina4 has had similar issues, and whenever I see both JosephusOfJerusalem and Raymond3023 involved in something, I tend to walk away sharpish (JoJ, by the way, is very obviously not as recent a contributor to the project as their account creation date suggests). These people are so het-up and embroiled in personal as well as topic-related differences that I don't hold out much hope of a limited t-ban actually reducing the noise overall. I'm less familiar with the others, aside from Kautilya3 and Mar4d, but am increasingly fed up of seeing their names among the same small group of antagonistic regulars at the various dispute venues. Kautilya3 is usually a voice of reason; Mar4d tends to veer between both extremes, depending on the subject matter - their efforts to calm down PAKHIGHWAY (talk · contribs) a few months ago, for example, were commendable, if doomed, but their efforts in this particular topic area (the Indo-Pak conflicts) are clearly rather wayward. - Sitush (talk) 13:51, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by Galobtter[edit]Noting that JosephusofJerusalem tried withdrawing the the two AEs he filed by by removing them. Galobtter (pingó mió) 14:17, 14 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by Sdmarathe[edit]Evidently a topic ban on Vanamonde93 should be also in order. Knowing that Vanamonde93 have been unnecessarily casting WP:ASPERSIONS and clearly trying to remove every single challenger with whom they are in dispute. @GoldenRing: If admins really consider conduct of more than a couple of editors to be problematic then Vanamonde93's conduct has been very problematic as well:
I have compared Vanamonde93's own battle ground mentality with a number of users reported here and Vanamonde93 clearly beats all of them except the OP as per these incidents I have linked in my diffs, no older than 6 days. Sdmarathe (talk) 16:11, 14 May 2018 (UTC) I can not help but laugh off at the suggestions indicating my "vendetta" against User:Vanamonde93 :) I have been reasonable enough to thank Vanamonde93 when they were right and criticize when I believed they were wrong. On the contrary there were several reverts that they have done that were just out of spite - who knows why. Anyone suggesting inappropriate behavior on my part should read edits 2 years back. And those that are suggesting I be included in the topic ban - need show a single edit warring incident on this topic by me. Anyone?? Sdmarathe (talk) 22:15, 14 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by Jbhunley[edit]"@D4iNa4: You are out of control. Unless you stop interpolating your comments everywhere and moving other user's comments around, as well as repeated personal attacks on any editor who disagrees with you, you risk being blocked. I suggest you stay away from this thread completely.") is descriptive of the behavior there. I would suggest at a minimum any topic ban be on IPA broadly construed (because Hoohah?!) but the sheer hostility, bad faith and disruption described here at AE tells me indefs for most are not far away. Jbh Talk 17:30, 14 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by NadirAli[edit]I logged in today with the intent of editing the article on Margot Kidder upon learning of her tragic passing. I wish to emphasize that I backed away from the articles after the same editors mentioned in this thread began edit warring. I have not broken any 3RRs and removed myself from these topics, seeing there was no near end in sight and that as usual, MBL and some other editors were not being reasonable. I even modified my edits on the Balochistan, but they did not accept them. This problem extends well over decade. It's not bad enough that some editors don't allow anyone to edit ARBIPA topics that contradicts their POV, but they also continue to lay siege on ARBIPA topics and then take any opposing editor to ANI where they lynch that user. This problem spans well over a decade and is responsible for most of the edit wars. Administrators and the community have continued to ignore this problem. But as I stated, I pulled out of the articles seeing this could end up very badly for not just me, but Mar4d as well. They have already filed an SPI against JOJ likely in retaliation for the SPI filed against Capitals00, like the one MBL filed against me in November. I have no intention of editing the article anytime soon, so I think the proposal of topic bans are a bit excessive, considering that I have created and contributed to pages in this area without edit warring.--NadirAli نادر علی (talk) 21:34, 14 May 2018 (UTC) RE:Kautilya3[edit]To editor GoldenRing:, To editor Sandstein:, The problem is if Kautilaya3 is allowed to continue editing this topic area while others are blocked, it will give unfair advantage to him given that many of his edits are objectionable. I am not trying to assume bad faith in this user as he and I have had agreements before in this topic area, but he often makes edits that are blatant POV. This will only leave pages open to him changing them to his POV without those who disagree unable to express their objection; resulting in a loss of WP:NPOV. Another issue is that Kautilya3 is under ethnicity claims restrictions [186]
He is also under a casting aspersions restriction. [187] These comments by him about doubting JoJ's Jewish identity are violation of that Sock or no sock, for that is irrelevant, someone who is under ethnicity claims restriction and aspersions restriction shouldn't be bringing up another user's claimed ethnic identity from within 1000 miles. He was banned from making any attempt to bring up another user's purported ethnicity. This is also actionable. I'm also unsure if ivanvector is aware of this and could re-evaluate on the proposals.--NadirAli نادر علی (talk) 21:10, 14 May 2018 (UTC) If one goes through the archives they will find that Kautilya3 has already been cut a lot of slack by our sysops. He has convinced sysops before that his abuse of multiple accounts was "accidental" [188] and he has even convinced them that his edit warring was not a 1RR violation because he "misunderstood" policy.[189] I believe the administrators have already been too lenient in dealing with his wrongdoings. This is just stretching good faith over the limit. I request them to apply the same criterion on Kautilya3 which they apply to everyone else. There should be a single set of rules, not separate rules for one and another set for everyone else if Wikipedia is to maintain its stature.--NadirAli نادر علی (talk) 06:14, 15 May 2018 (UTC)--NadirAli نادر علی (talk) 06:14, 15 May 2018 (UTC) To editor Seraphimblade: How can this [190][191] be called "trying to keep things reasonable"?--NadirAli نادر علی (talk) 06:27, 15 May 2018 (UTC) Result concerning Capitals00[edit]
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D4iNa4
[edit]| This is being considered for action in the context of the request concerning Capitals00 above. Procedural closure. Sandstein 15:12, 14 May 2018 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning D4iNa4[edit]
This user has pretty much the same incivility issues as Capitals00 above. Which is why I have decided to report both together since the problems in both cases are identical. They contribute to boiling our editing environment with hatred and vitriol. And there is just no sign that this is not going to continue. JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 07:33, 12 May 2018 (UTC) Response to Capitals00 by JosephusOfJerusalem[edit]
Discussion concerning D4iNa4[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by D4iNa4[edit]Statement by Capitals00[edit]Just like the above one, this is a frivolous complaint filed only because JosephusOfJerusalem is failing to get consensus for his POV. Neither report discuss any problematic editing, but only misrepresents general criticism as "personal attack".
Given this is a revenge complaint filed by JosephusOfJerusalem only to get rid of the far more experienced and competent editor who happens to be his opponent. I would recommend admins to read the evidence I have provided above and simply solve the problem by sanctioning JosephusOfJerusalem for his long term disruption. Capitals00 (talk) 09:15, 12 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by MBlaze Lightning[edit]See Special:Diff/840836278. MBlaze Lightning talk 13:58, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by WBG[edit]See my comments in the thread, just above.~ Winged BladesGodric 10:10, 13 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by Ivanvector[edit]This is effectively a duplicate of the Capitals00 report above, and should be speedy closed (or whatever that looks like here) in deference to that thread. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 15:10, 14 May 2018 (UTC) Result concerning D4iNa4[edit]
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Ayytro
[edit]| Blocked for one week. Sandstein 14:08, 16 May 2018 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Ayytro[edit]
The user have less then 500 edits and he was specifically warned not to edit I/P articles.Also his use of "IOF(Israel Occupation Army)" instead of IDF raise the question if an editor can edit neutrally even after gaining 500 edits.--Shrike (talk) 19:15, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Ayytro[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Ayytro[edit]Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Ayytro[edit]
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SPECIFICO
[edit]| SPECIFICO is reminded of the behavioral standards expected of Wikipedia editors, and warned that not following them in the future will likely lead to sanctions. TonyBallioni (talk) 13:21, 20 May 2018 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning SPECIFICO[edit]
In the evidence section, I've tried to group things in a way that makes sense since these are largely isolated, independent comments. I've also been limited to 20 diffs per the instructions. While SPECIFICO can occasionally make decent contributions, his activity is lately far skewed toward Talk pages and project dispute pages (such as ANI & AE) than article edits. Along with this shift, his decorum when interacting with fellow editors in the political and economic areas has reached all time lows. Also, his current topic ban was imposed in part because he used talk pages to disparage article subjects he was not a fan of, exactly as he is shown to be doing now related to Trump, etc. Its my feeling that the project would benefit more if he were directed towards other subject areas for the time being until he can demonstrate a willingness to engage on a consistent civil and productive level. Focusing so hard on these areas has caused him to lose perspective and too often to treat talk pages as a battleground/soapboak rather than as a mechanism to improve our articles. I strongly recommend an indefinite politics & economics topic ban, which he can appeal in some time, rather than a short term block. This is a more systemic problem with his working attitude, rather than something of immediate short-term punitive nature. -- Netoholic @ 03:25, 18 May 2018 (UTC) To editor TonyBallioni: - I don't think your response included consideration of the BLPTALK items. Do you not think its a concern that he openly disparages the article subjects, or is AP2 too far gone and we're just going to allow it? -- Netoholic @ 04:09, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
To editors TonyBallioni and NeilN: re: "a comment limit per thread" - doesn't that just put an additional burden on fellow editors who have to keep track of SPECIFICO's activity, counting his edits carefully? What defines a "thread"? Can he just add a section header and keep going? What if he limits himself to trash talk in edit summaries? He is a very smart player, and knows the game. Wikipedia is a big place, and politics/economics is a pretty small proportion of it. Do you believe we have to preserve his right to edit in this area, despite his inability to function professionally? -- Netoholic @ 09:02, 18 May 2018 (UTC) SPECIFICO's response mentioning me is factually wrong. I have never moved the article liberal bias in academia. My reason for opening this request is based on my participation on the talk page of that article, and seeing a pattern I am familiar with from previous encounters. I investigated his recent behavior and, except for the first of my diffs above, I am not involved in any other of the incidents of incivility and included them here just based on what I can interpret from an outside view. Even if some diffs are not directly from AP2 pages, his incivility is a direct response to prior interaction with those editors on AP2 pages. What I personally find distressing is that on his user page and frequently in the past, SPECIFICO has identified himself as a businessman, PhD, economist, and having been published in peer-reviewed journals. In that respect, his utterly flippant rejection of a scholarly study which has hundreds of citations is unprofessional and indicates such a degree of open hostility toward either the subject matter, or the editor bringing it up, that his willing to forego basic academic decorum and has the result, likely intended, to make other editors avoid contact with him, to the detriment of the articles - a net negative to the project. I'll leave it to others to respond about how his actions have impacted them, but I will point out that I don't see anything close to apology in his response, nor any plan from him to avoid these sort of things in the future. My original thought stands - it would benefit him and the project if he were to work in other areas for a while. No one is owed access to edit in any particular area when they've demonstrated in the long-term that they can turn disagreement into disparagement. -- Netoholic @ 03:49, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
Discussion concerning SPECIFICO[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by SPECIFICO[edit]Sandstein and Atsme, thank you for your requests and your patience awaiting my reply. I’ve waited a while before appearing here so that folks could have their say and to ensure that premature remarks from me would not lead to a scattershot back-and-forth before the central points had been laid out. First, let me acknowledge that I, like many others, am very frustrated at the recent deterioration of the editing environment at American Politics articles. The discussion here has clarified for me that I have responded to this situation in some cases with rather detached, pithy, and occasionally sarcastic remarks. In general, one way editors have maintained interpersonal contact even as editing progress slowed at these articles is through a kind of banter, sometimes off-topic, which was not our style as recently as six months ago. I’m not sure that’s entirely a bad thing, but it’s become clear reading the comments in this thread that when this kind of remark is seen as pointed or edgy, that is not a constructive or useful tone. And of course written words, when folks sometimes have little familiarity with the poster, can easily be misinterpreted by some of the participants. That having been said, I’ve learned from this thread that it is not helpful to make wisecracks or brief replies that may seem dismissive to some editors. I’ll note however that I see a lot of diffs here that do not support anything near their claims of “personal attacks” or any lesser sanctionable violations. Just to give a couple of examples, @Drmies: made a tongue in cheek remark to which I replied in what I thought was a similar gesture here [217]. I was surprised to see this cited in this AE thread as a personal attack. Please look at this diff in context: [218] I though it would have been clear that such an interpretation does not reflect my intent, but I have now learned and I acknowledge that even what I thought was good-natured and innocuous may not seem so to the editor whose edit is being rejected. Actually, many of the diffs presented here are similar. For the record, @Atsme: and I get along just fine, even though we often disagree and even get frustrated with one another’s views. Same goes for many other editors. And I always invite editors to come to my talk page with complaints and venting, unlike many who “ban” other users from their talk pages. At any rate, I won’t go on too long here. I hope I have been clear and I am glad to respond to any specific concerns the Admins have or their questions about any of the evidence presented here. I’ll close by saying that while Netoholic cited various principles from ARBAP2, I don’t see that his evidence documents his list of violations in this topic area. There are diffs that are not AP2 DS stuff and there are diffs (many out of context) that just don’t show what he claims. Netoholic has tended to edit in short periods of intensive activity over the years. He seems to have been upset with me since years ago, when I was one of the editors who disagreed with his view that alt-right Canadian Youtuber Stefan Molyneux should be called a “philosopher” in Wikipedia’s voice. He followed me around for a while after he was topic banned. Notwithstanding everything I’ve said about moderating my tone, I’m afraid that to me, this just seems like more of the same with respect to the complaint and the evidence Netoholic provides. I recently made a move on the article Liberal bias in academia that Netholic reverted and which move of mine is being resoundingly affirmed on the article talk page, rejecting Netoholic’s view. @JFG: cites lots of diffs either out of context or diffs that don’t show what he claims. He cites stuff not about American Politics, he cites content statements I presume bothered him… I won’t assume that anyone finds these credible, but if there is any of this or other evidence that the Admins would like me to address, I’m pleased to do so. I would reply to @Mandruss: that there’s been substantial discussion of the overuse of “informal polls” on talk pages and that I am far from the only editor who has seen that as a poor choice of process, particularly on relatively minor issues that by definition do not warrant an RfC, which would be dispositive. Disagreement on an issue of process does not seem to me worth mentioning in an AE thread. SPECIFICO talk 00:37, 20 May 2018 (UTC) @Awilley: Yes, that was what I was trying to convey above. Basically, to disengage and work on other things when these deadlocked threads arise. So you're correct it's more broadly defined by "approach" than "tone". SPECIFICO talk 10:41, 20 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by Mandruss[edit]I've found SPECIFICO's presence at Talk:Donald Trump to be a net-negative, and my sense is that it's been getting worse in the past couple of months. All the things mentioned by the OP are on prominent display there. More specifically, SPECIFICO has pegged User:JFG as a POV-pusher because JFG somewhat consistently takes a Trump-favorable position, contrary to what SPECIFICO Knows to be the Truth. Having identified JFG as a POV-pusher, SPECIFICO feels justified in pushing the limits of WP:NPA and WP:HARASS—stopping just short of "you are a fucking idiot"—as well as turning WP:AGF and WP:BATTLEGROUND on their respective heads. Latest example: This, aggressively criticizing JFG for - gasp! - starting a survey to resolve a content dispute. That's simply unacceptable where I come from. After a little back-and-forth between me and SPECIFICO, I decided to collapse that as off-topic, whereupon SPECIFICO copied the back-and-forth to a new, uncollapsed subsection of the thread. Over 50 hours later, there have been no other comments there, indicating the level of editor interest in that. Meanwhile, some 16 or 18 editors have participated in the survey with not a peep in support of SPECIFICO's criticism of it. SPECIFICO seems oblivious that their views on things are completely out of step with those of other editors, persistently presenting them as indisputable and self-evident fact. AFAICT, my political views are closer to those of SPECIFICO than those of JFG, but I look at who is closer to playing by the rules of the game, and JFG runs circles around SPECIFICO in that regard. JFG rarely responds to SPECIFICO in kind, and that shows more self-control than I could muster in his place. I disagree with TonyBalloni that we should address the worst offenders first and that we can't do anything because AP2 is a mess. That constitutes surrender in my book, and we might as well pack it up if many admins take that position. I didn't arrive on scene until about October 2016, so I'll leave it to others to decide whether SPECIFICO has received enough chances to improve; but I don't think the status quo should be acceptable to any objective observer. ―Mandruss ☎ 05:05, 18 May 2018 (UTC) @TonyBallioni: Re-ping, phonetic similarity to TonyBaloney completely accidental. ―Mandruss ☎ 05:08, 18 May 2018 (UTC) SPECIFICO: If, once again, people can't see anything actionable in a persistent disregard for the letter and spirit of WP:BATTLEGROUND and WP:AGF, so it shall be, and we will all continue to live with the consequences. I can't fault admins (much) for being very reluctant to enforce behavior policy under our system of self-selected "self-governance", which I consider to be a noble but woefully failed social experiment. I'll just pointlessly note for the record that your response to me completely missed my main points, and I don't think it fails AGF to use the word "sidestepped" here. ―Mandruss ☎ 04:49, 20 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by JFG[edit](pinged) Over several years, SPECIFICO has exhibited a pattern of snark towards her fellow editors, and her strong interest in the AP2 area has degraded the collegiality expected of all participants. As AE proceedings require actionable evidence, here are some recent examples I came across:
Overall, SPECIFICO's interventions contribute to the toxic atmosphere in the AP2 area, especially in articles about political "current events", which are contentious enough without her fanning the flames. Her snide comments and threats have had a chilling effect on healthy debate towards article improvement. Some of the attacked editors have quit (and SPECIFICO is proud of that). Warnings have been tried, and had no lasting effect on her behavior. A topic ban is in my opinion long overdue. Full disclosure: I used to be one of SPECIFICO's hounding targets a year ago.[236][237] Consequently she was barred from calling for sanctions outside the appropriate venues.[238] — JFG talk 09:15, 18 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by Capitals00[edit]@TonyBallioni and NeilN: In place of sanctioning one or multiple users, I believe that you should put the area under "civility restriction" for all personal attacks and it should be clarified that any allegations based on the user misconduct, credibility, including the concerns about incompetence, tag teaming, should be made on appropriate noticeboard or reported to sanctioning admins. Capitals00 (talk) 10:38, 18 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by Compassionate727[edit]First off, I've never commented at anything related to the Arbitration Committee, both from lack of need and because the whole process seems rather complex in a way only bureaucracies can be. Hopefully, I did this correctly. I became aware of this enforcement request because I watchlisted SPECIFICO's talkpage (along with several others') following a rather heated discussion at MfD. It appears that SPECIFICO's outstanding sanctions are topical rather than behavioral in nature, which I interpret to mean they are prescriptive rather than punitive in nature. I am personally glad that this is the case, because SPECIFICO seems to me to be editing in perfectly good faith, although I confess I have a history of assuming too much of it. The problem to me seems to a general conduct one rather than a specific issue with political or economic topics. See personal attacks [239], sarcasm [240][241], and otherwise unnecessarily-escalatory rhetoric [242][243] that all occurred at the aforesaid MfD. However, he seems to me to also be perfectly capable of engaging calmly and constructively [244][245]. Even this seems to me to be an apology, though he never calls it that. To me, the difference between his civil and uncivil responses seems to be merely a matter of how he is engaged, where he responds quite constructively provided he is engaged in a calm and civil manner. Unfortunately, my experience with Trump-related articles here is that civility and especially calmness are altogether lacking. Obviously, the MfD links are outside the scope of his current sanctions, and my opinion here doesn't really matter anyway. Nevertheless, I would appreciate it if any remedies were interested in attempting to isolate SPECIFICO from tense and uncivil situations, insofar as reasonable remedies can accomplish this. —Compassionate727 (T·C) 13:33, 18 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by Mr. Daniel Plainview[edit]My limited interactions with this person have been largely negative to date, and I don't see a lot of value that SPECIFICO brings to these pages. I do see this warning at the top of the page where some of this behavior has occurred: Statement by Factchecker_atyourservice[edit]I've had numerous interactions with SPECIFICO that I would describe as "bizarrely antagonistic", and although he has repeatedly sought to have NeilN block me (e.g. here), I just want to talk about this one specific exchange that helps illustrate what I mean by "bizarrely antagonistic". This exchange began when I posted the following, referring to breaking stories about Trump's upcoming interview with Mueller and NYT editorial board views about what this means for the investigation. Specifico responded with a withering series of replies that I still don't understand. As far as I can tell, his only purpose was to be heard saying I was wrong about something, except he didn't want to explain what was wrong, and in fact all of his comments revolved around alleged defects on my part. Yes, I repeatedly and very very bluntly told him to shut up in response, using uncivil language, but it was eminently clear he wasn't trying to discuss anything, and instead just wanted to make personal comments about me. The exchange continued later, when another editor proposed some content mentioning this same list of questions. I replied linking the issue to some recent arguments about other news reports, and I referred to the list as "Mueller's leaked wish list of interview questions". SPECIFICO came back with another maddening series of responses in which he simply contradicted me and said I was wrong, and said I hadn't read the sources, again without explanation, even though I requested explanation. Once it became clear to me that he was just trying to antagonize me rather than actually discuss something, I confronted him about it directly on his user talk page, and he only persisted in the same pattern of calling me wrong, refusing to explain why, and pretending not to understand my request for clarification. On both the article talk page and his user talk, although my patience had already worn thin I still requested, politely enough, that he clarify what he meant by saying he was wrong, or to cite a source, or give any explanation at all what he was talking about. Instead he was gleeful that he was succeeding in upsetting me, and attempted to do it even further while still refusing the requested explanation (e.g. here and here.) So again, this behavior which I described as "bizarrely antagonistic" was nothing more than an ongoing effort to goad me into making an angry response so that he could then complain to an admin and get me blocked for it—which I fully realize I am risking by bringing my own blunt comments to admin attention. I'm well aware of boomeranging and I'm fresh off a block myself. But I just don't know how to respond to someone so intent at harassing others. Factchecker_atyourservice 20:23, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by Objective3000[edit]I think that Specifico clearly should provide a contrite response indicating that she will act more collegially. But, realize the difficulty faced in the DS articles. Two of the respondents in this filing have, and continue to have, exhibited far more (far more) BATTLEEGROUND behavior in the last week than she. I am concerned that any bans will encourage continuation of such behavior. Apologies for not being specific. I’m not trying to cast specific aspersions or totally excuse any acts. I’m only trying to explain causes of frustration. As I’ve said before here, editing DS articles is like dancing the tango in a minefield. That said, I think Specifico needs to deal with the situation in a better manner and respect that she has held back in responding thus far. O3000 (talk) 00:51, 19 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by Shock Brigade Harvester Boris[edit]This whole topic area is already a mess and it's getting even worse. You guys (i.e., the admin corps) should start handing out blocks and topic bans like Halloween candy. Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 01:55, 19 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by Geogene[edit]I've been looking at these diffs, and find them extremely underwhelming. If you're going to penalize SPECIFICO for sarcasm, I assume you're planning on enforcing that standard equally. And when you do, pretty soon nobody will be left to edit AP2. Probably not even Shock Brigade Harvester Boris,
Statement by (Atsme)[edit]I'm pretty much on the same page as Sandstein in this case - I want to evaluate the response by SPECIFICO - primarily because I don't take pile-ons at face value. My association with SPECIFICO dates back to 2015 but I don't have any animosity toward this editor. We disagree most of the time but I see my pragmatist perception as a net positive; i.e., show me the facts...but I'm not sure of SPECIFICO's position. I think it (her statement) is cleary worthy of inclusion in an effort to get the full picture. Atsme📞📧 03:24, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by Gandydancer[edit]First I want to say that I give my thanks to any editor willing to edit most of the Trump articles, those that I agree with and those that I don't. But as much as I am very concerned that our encyclopedia truthfully record the Trump administration, I don't have the time and patience to work on most of the articles, even though I am by nature quite a patient person and time is not a problem since I am retired. Considering the present divided state of our union, it is not at all surprising that our Trump article pages should reflect that division. Of course editors working on such a difficult topic are going to lose their patience, be sarcastic, and such. Admins may need to monitor the talk pages more closely, but I strongly object to sanctions for editors such as SPECIFCO. Plenty of Trump editors have certainly irritated me and tested my patience but I've always found SPECIFCO to be insightful, fair, and witty to boot, something that perhaps some others are irritated with and see as spitefully sarcastic but for me is more a tad of lightness in a very difficult editing situation. IMO if we start barring people like SPECIFCO from the Trump articles we can expect them to begin to cave in to a string of biased pictures of this administration. I worry about that since I know it could happen. Gandydancer (talk) 04:37, 19 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by Reissgo[edit]My main problem with SPECIFICO is his/her reluctance to take part in the "discuss" part of Bold-Revert-Discuss. I.e. I make a bold edit, SPECIFICO reverts my edit. I start a discussion but then SPECIFICO does not respond. The net result being that I have to seek support from some third party for all the edits I make. I have complained to SPECIFICO about this on multiple occasions, for example here [250] and here [251]. There is also plenty of incivility, like this "Don't push your luck" vague threat [252] when I pointed out the he/she was breaking their topic ban. And a general drip feed of sarcasm and put downs like "Have you considered other hobbies?" here [253]. Reissgo (talk) 11:44, May 19, 2018 (UTC)
Statement by My very best wishes[edit]I did not really follow these discussions, but interacted with the users. Consider something like this (link by NeilN). SPECIFICO makes a comment on a talk page of BullRangifer. Not sure if I understand the meaning of her comment, but this is something they would friendly discuss with BullRangifer, without any disruption to the project. Now, Factchecker_atyourservice comes uninvited to the talk page of BullRangifer, with an inflammatory comment: "BullRangifer: if you honestly expect me to abide by your "banning" me from your talk page..." (note that the inflammatory comment by Factchecker_atyourservice was not a response to the previous comments by SPECIFICO and BullRangifer on the talk page). This comment by Factchecker_atyourservice ensured the development of a conflict on the talk page. Now, very same Factchecker_atyourservice argues on this page to sanction SPECIFICO. This looks to me as a set up by Factchecker_atyourservice, whose involvement on various talk pages [254] must be a matter of serious scrutiny if anyone wants to implement sanctions more serious than merely a "last warning". My very best wishes (talk) 15:06, 19 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by CASPRINGS[edit]If User:SPECIFICO is to be warned, I would suggest that some of other editors here should also see Wikipedia:BOOMERANG. For example, I think one should look at User:Factchecker_atyourservice. I just don't see how he/she can complain about SPECIFICO and maintain his or her behavior on pages like Trump–Russia dossier. I made a complaint at here at WP:AN.If you are going to warn one editor, you need to look at the other editors who he or she is directly interacting with. Casprings (talk) 04:06, 20 May 2018 (UTC) Result concerning SPECIFICO[edit]
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