Generators

Webinar
17/6/2020
Generator types
Generator types
• Portable or not portable
• Different power ratings: from kVA all the way to MVA
• Different fuels: diesel, gas or fuel
• Different technologies
• Single phase, split phase or 3 phase
• Air or water cooled
• Market specific: land, marine or RV
• Normal or hybrid types
Want to know more about generators ?
Read the Marine generator test report
• A lot of basic generator knowledge
• Not just for marine, but also suitable for the other markets

Topics:
• Engines, RPM, governor and AC alternator explanations,
• Fuel consumption, NOx emission, CO emission and Sound levels
• Frequency stability, Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) and Voltage stability
• Generator behaviour when connecting compressor (large inrush) or inductive
cooker (inductive load)
• Comparing a variety of marine generators performance
Victron system with a generator
Basic Victron system with a generator
Two types of systems
The generator is the main energy source The generator is the backup

The inverter charger will: The generator will:

• Reduce running hours • Protect the batteries from getting

• Reduce fuel consumption empty
• Reduce generator maintenance • Supplement solar during bad weather
or night
• Allow for quiet time
• Prevent inverter overload
• Prevent generator overload
• …….
• …..
Benefits of a hybrid system
• A generator is very inefficient at low power
• Ideally run the generator at close to full loads

Benefits:
• Less fuel use
• Less running hours
• Less maintenance
• Less noise
• No running at night

More info see:

Using Multiplus to reduce operating cost of a generator
Practical example - Bredenoord E-saver
Automatically starting a generator
Starting a generator
Manual start
• By pushing a button, turning a key or pulling a cord
• These type of generators generally cannot be automatic started
• In some cases an additional electronic automatic start kit might
be available

Automatic start
• By feeding an electronic signal to the automatic start terminal
• Via CANbus (only FisherPanda), for more info see here
Start/stop signal
• Many of our products contain a programable relay
• This relay can be used to provide a single start/stop signal
• This is suitable for most generators

• Some generators need two separate (one-shot) signals

• A single signal can be converted into two signals
• How to do this, see here
Generating a start/stop signal

These 3 products are commonly used for generating a start stop signal:

• BMV battery monitor

• MultiPlus or Quattro inverter/charger

• A GX device
BMV
BMV relay

• Potential free relay

• NO - COM - NC
• Bistable relay 60V, 1A
• Relay can be inverted by software

Normally open
Common
Normally closed

Note that the SmartShunt does not have a relay

System example

Generator

Using the BMV to start/stop a generator is:

auto start BMV head
unit

• Easy to integrate RJ12 UTP

cable

• Easy to setup BMV

shunt

• Cost effective DC
Loads
BMV relay start/stop parameters
Use VictronConnect to program the relay:
• Set to charger mode
• Invert relay
• Minimum closed time
• Relay off delay
• State of charge start/stop conditions
• Battery voltage start/stop conditions
• See the BMV manual for configuration
VictronConnect
App

VictronConnect
Windows or Mac

VE.Direct to USB
interface
Inverter/charger
Inverter/charger relays

• Programable relay
• K relay(s)

K
K P
P
Programable relay

• Potential free bistable relay

• 4A up to 240Vac or 35Vdc, 1A up to 60Vdc

NC = Normally Closed
C=Common
NO = Normally Open

Relay is driven
by logic from
Multi CPU

MultiPlus + Quattro MultiPlus II

K relay
MultiPlus and Quattro 5K and up:
NC
• Relay C
NO
• 4A up to 240Vac or 35Vdc, 1A up to 60Vdc

MultiPlus-II
+
• Open collector
• + 12V 100mA supply -
• - open collector 70V 100mA
Usage examples
Relay examples
Programable relay
Programable relay
Fuse
Generator
Buzzer Generator
Warning light or
Alarm circuit Alarm circuit
Extraction fan
And so on

Battery

Open collector examples

V+
Max 70V

Multi
Multi

Load +
+
Max 100mA
Load
- Max 100mA
-

GND
GND
Start/stop parameters
Generator can be started or stopped on:
• VE.Bus State of charge (not suitable if there are DC loads or DC sources)
• Battery voltage
• Ac load - to prevent inverter overload

Two ways of programming using VE.Configure:

• Virtual switch - choose the dedicated generator control option
• Assistant - choose the Generator start/stop assistant

Some extra features possible via other assistants like:

• Ac input can be programmed with a time delay so generator can warm up
• AC output 2 relay can also be used to start or stop a generator
 VE.Configure
Dedicated generator control option virtual switch Generator start/stop assistant, driving a variety of
driving the programable relay relays

For more info see my earlier presentation on For more info see my earlier presentation on
Basic multi programming Assistant programming
Using both BMV and inverter/charger
Generator start stop using both BMV and Multi
• The inverter/charger and BMV relays can be used together to start/stop a generator

Depending on the start signal required:

• Wire the open contacts (NO) in parallel to each other
• Or the closed contacts (NC) in series with each other

NC COM
NO

NC COM
NO

NC COM
NO
GX device
GX device relay
• Different GX devices have a different number of relays
• Relays are bistable
• The Cerbo GX and maxi GX have two relays and the others have 1 relay
• Venus OS only allows use of one relay for now
• For more info on specific GX devices see the GX product overview webpage
System example
GX device start stop parameters
• These parameters depend on the equipment connected to • Battery state of charge
the GX device
• Battery voltage and current
• For example, a GX device can not calculate SoC by itself, it
• AC Load and inverter overload
relies on the connected equipment
• Inverter temperature
• SmartShunt can be used for SoC
• Quiet time
• For more info see the GX - Generator auto start/stop manual
• Minimum run time
• Run until battery is full setting
• Stop generator when gird is
back (AC1 in use)
• Generator warm up time
• Periodic maintenance run
• Loss of communication
Battery SOC, voltage and current settings
AC output, temperature, overload, run time
Generator information and history
• Special generator overview screen
• More generator info via the settings screen
• Run time, total run time and errors
• Manual start option
• Graphical information (VRM)
• Fuel usage report (VRM)

• For more info see the presentation system monitoring and VRM
Overview screen and manual start
• To see the special generator information screen: press and
hold left selection button
• Manual start possible via the dedicated generator screen
orby pressing centre button or via the settings screen

• Access can be local or remote via the remote console (VRM)

left

left

centre
Other considerations and special applications
Charging generator start battery
• It is important to keep the generator start battery charged
• Usually the generator takes care of this, but if generator does not
often run you will need to provide additional charge

• Use the trickle charge output (Multi or large chargers) (not for 48V)

• Use a blue power charger (not for 48V)

• Use DC/DC charge or DC/DC converter between main battery bank

and generator start battery (for all voltages)
3 phase
• An inverter/charger system will reject AC input if the phase rotation is wrong
• The GX device has a generator start option if one phase is overloaded
• Phase balancing is important for the generator, but less so for inverter/chargers
• Only star 3 phase possible make sure that the neutrals are joined
• For more info see presentation: 3 phase and parallel systems
Quattro
• Available in units 3K and up

• The quattro has two inputs

• One for generator
• One for grid

• Cannot be used together, is break

before make
• Only input 1 can be used to recover
after an empty battery (power
supply mode)
Second AC output Multi or Quattro
• Available in units 3K and up

• Default operation is to wait 2 minutes

before closing after AC has been
accepted by inverter/charger
• This to give a generator time to warm up

• The AC output 2 can be re-programmed

to switch based on conditions set by the
relay assistant or the generator assistant
Using the Grid as a backup generator
Drive the AC input relays to:

Ignoring the grid when:

• The batteries are full enough
• The battery voltage is still okay
• The load is less than the inverter rating

Let the grid in when:

• Batteries are empty
• Load is bigger than inverter rating

• For more info see my earlier presentation on Basic multi programming

AC input current limit
• Set the AC input current limit correctly so the generator will not get overloaded by the
AC loads or by the charger

• Set it to 80 to 90% of the generator nominal power rating

• Keep a bit of a buffer don’t always load the generator fully
Variable speed generators
• A variable speed generator has a variable power output
depending on engine speed (RPM)
• Examples: flywheel generator or water turbine or the
Dynawatt and Dometic Travelpower generator
• The frequency of the engine needs to be
communicated to the Multi, so that the Multi can
adjust the AC input current
• This needs to be programmed in the Multi using the
“Input current limit control” assistant

• For more info see this document: Engine driven

inverter system
Power assist
• The Inverter/charger can assist incoming generator power to help out running a large load or
load with high start-up current
• There is a minimum current for power assist to work (see next slide)
• We advice that the generator needs to be the same or bigger than the inverter
• And don’t forget to set the correct AC input limit
Minimum AC input current limit
• There is a minimum amount of AC needed for a Multi to be
able to PowerAssist

• There is no minimum limit when PowerAssist function is

disabled

• For example: a MultiPlus 12/3000 has a 3.1 A minimum

shore current limit

• The full list of limits can be found in the firmware folder in

Victron Professional: Minimum shore current limits
Generator sine wave
• When the sine wave is of good quality the MultiPlus will easily and quickly
synchronise to it
• But …. many generators have ill-shaped sine waves
• The MultiPlus will disconnect frequently or does not connect at all

Main programming settings to be made

• Disable UPS setting
• Reduce or check the AC input limit
• Enable Dynamic current limiter
• Enable Weak AC

For more settings and when to use these settings see: MultiPlus generator FAQ
Fisher Panda Integration
• Generator information - power, engine parameters and errors
• Generator start via Can Bus
• See this link for more info
More information
Further Victron documentation
Documents:
Marine generator test report
Using Multiplus to reduce operating cost of a generator
Automatic genset start and stop
MultiPlus generator FAQ
Achieving the impossible
Fischer Panda integration

Blogs:
The trouble with Generators
MultiPlus magic: Small generator, big power
Energy. Anytime. Anywhere.